Courses and info products are some of the most profitable campaigns to run through YouTube advertising because people are often already coming to YouTube to learn about something. So they’re already in the mentality to join a webinar or watch a short instructional video. Then you can transition the conversation into a sale of your product.
One of the top YouTube ad buyers in the world who has spent millions selling these type of products joined us this week on the YouTube Marketing Accelerator.
Shash runs a YouTube advertising agency that works and has worked with big name clients like Amazing Selling Machine, Kinobody and more. His agency currently manages hundreds of thousands a month in ad spend on YouTube Ads.
Matt Johnston: 00:15 Hello everybody. Welcome to the youtube marketing accelerator podcast. I’m Matt Johnson. Thank you so much for joining me today. We have an incredible show here for you. , very, very excited to dig into how you crush selling info products through youtube ads. It’s, it’s, it’s an amazing space for info products and these types of funnels. And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve got one of the big dogs here who’s going to tell us how he has, , spent millions of dollars selling these products online and found great, great, great success. Um, so we’re here with shush sing. He runs links digital agency. , he also has a course on youtube ads. , he’s, he’s worked with big name clients like amazing selling machine, Kino body, and more managing hundreds of thousands of dollars of dollars a month in ad spend on youtube ads. Thank you so much for, for joining me.
Shash Singh: 01:14 Hey Matt, thanks for having me on the show and yeah, I’m excited to get this started.
Matt Johnston: 01:19 I’m, I’m, I’m super pumped. Why don’t you just tell us first how you got into Youtube advertising in the first place?
Shash Singh: 01:26 So it’s actually a funny story. It was by accident. Um, I was doing some SEO consulting for a friend of mine, , Greg from Kino body and he, he wanted to run youtube ads and he basically didn’t have anybody, did it do it. So, , I started running his youtube ads and within two weeks we were, we just saw the insane power of Youtube advertising ad within three weeks I think we were spending $5,000 a day profitably, , very, very high return, I think like over two x return or for a fitness info product that he had. And that basically just got me into youtube. Um, added basically just showed me the power because, you know, I was new to the platform and I just saw that, hey, without having to really, , become an expert at it, I was already getting great results. I was making a million mistakes but still getting awesome results. , and after that I became addicted to the platform. I’ve worked with a bunch of clients and now what we do is pretty much a youtube advertising. It’s our bread and butter. So I, that’s pretty much how I got started. Pure luck and I’m just getting the right opportunity at the right time. How long ago was that? That was actually, I think early, like late 2015 to early 2016. So yeah, that was over three years ago. Three and a half years.
Matt Johnston: 02:43 That’s awesome. And so you were getting really good results right away when you didn’t even really know what you were doing on youtube. How did you, how did you get that campaign started?
Shash Singh: 02:52 Um, so I did the basics, which was number one, just cut down the losers. So the losing demographics, the losing, um, audiences, just pretty much standard optimization stuff. Um, the reality of it is if you have a great funnel that converts, if you just follow your, you know, the core media buying principles, you’re going to get quite results. Where issues usually happen is if people have really bad funnels, are people, are funnels that are kind of borderline. And in those borderline cases, it’s like, okay, you can squeeze some performance outfit, but in some cases where you have a funnel that’s absolutely crushing it, um, you can just basically get that working so much faster. , you know, I, I really hate to see that it’s that, but, um, yeah, on the ad side you can control a lot of things. Um, and those things will help a lot, but nothing’s going to make a convert, a converting funnel basically up. Nothing’s going to make a funnel that’s not converting work with ads. No matter how great you are at ads, right? Like you can throw everything at the wall. It’s not gonna work. On the other hand, if you have a great funnel, literally within a week or two, you can get that profitable, , with the advertising.
Matt Johnston: 03:58 Yeah. Right. You have to sort of choose who you work with very wisely. H.
Shash Singh: 04:02 Actually. And, um, the other thing about that particular instance was the creative was just exceptional. It was just an amazing creative, it was the Bruce Wayne video that, , Greg created that creative just absolutely killed it. So, um, yeah, funnel and creative are the two biggest parts of, you know, any ad campaign. Right. And the creative side is something, , as an advertiser usually have more control over because you can kind of tell, you can guide your client and you’ll give them scripts and so on. And then it’s up to them to implement. And then the funnel side, obviously that’s on the client. Do all of this be testing that and just figuring that side out.
Matt Johnston: 04:37 Right. So, so with these info products, , can, can you just describe to me what you just described for everybody, what you mean by an info product? Um, just so that we are clear for the rest of the conversation here. I mean, are we mostly talking about, , I mean, or is it, it’s sort of a mix of webinar funnels and ecommerce, the type info products where you would buy it right away. What sort of price point you talking about? How does that usually work for you?
Shash Singh: 05:02 So when I say in full products, I’m mostly referring to, um, basically courses. And also in some cases, kind of high ticket coaching programs are even done for you. High very high ticket services. Um, so basically the price points are usually in what we do right now is usually we work with products that over are over a thousand dollars. So at the low point they’re at a thousand and then at the high point there are plenty thousand and we have one client for running an offer do that. , they’re getting basically they have plenty or $15,000 offer and well, you know what’s funny enough, , what we’ve really seen is the higher the price point, the higher the ROI. Like it’s a crazy correlation, but people are too scared to price their product high enough. And we’ve just seen that, you know, if you have a more expensive product, it usually does better with paid ads and gets you a better return on ad spend, which allows you to scale more. Um, and in fact, we’ve even seen that basically even the thousand dollar price point in many cases is too low and you kind of have to go higher than that. To really stand out today and make, make a great profit. Because ultimately, you know, if somebody is going to spend $1,000, they’re probably going to spend $2,000. Right? Like a, on the other hand, if somebody is going to spend $50, they’re probably not going to spend $1,000 ride like that. There’s a huge jump in that point.
Matt Johnston: 06:20 That’s really interesting. Yeah, that’s very interesting. I’d love to talk a little bit, a little bit later about why, about the, , how you structure your creatives and, and funnels differently depending on the, depending on the price of the products. , but first of all, as far as info products more generally, what do you think the biggest opportunity is with youtube advertising? , when it comes to infoproducts, like why do you feel like it’s a perfect fit there from a media buying stamp?
Shash Singh: 06:49 Well, it’s a perfect fit because people are watching videos on youtube about your topics. So let’s say if you’re selling a course on investing, right? Let’s say you have a thousand dollar course on investing a, where do people go if they want to learn investing? Sure, they might go read a couple blogs, but there’s a big chance they’re on youtube watching videos. And when you advertise in front of those videos, you’re hitting them right when they’re at, they’re exhibiting their highest intent behavior. They are very, very interested. And these are big audiences. There are a lot of videos about investing and there are thousands that have made tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people watching those videos in many initiative. This millions and tens of millions of people watching those videos are ad on Facebook. You know, people are usually scrolling through the newsfeed, so it’s not as high intent. It’s people you kind of catching people while they’re distracted and it’s not really a big priority. But on the other hand, if you’re watching a video on how to, let’s say, invest, so you will retire by 40, hey, that’s a way better fit for a, for a product. And those people actually value that. And at that current of that moment in time they app, they’re actually, , very much committed to that idea of achieving that.
Matt Johnston: 07:59 Yeah. Right. It’s like that intent, right? That that intent is so powerful on youtube. I always kind of think of it, it’s sort of like the best of a Facebook and Google ads sort of put together, because you have the intent of Google, but you have the opportunity to sell them on it in the creative like you do with Facebook ads. Right. Does that sort of make sense to you too? Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. It’s such, it’s such a great opportunity. Okay. So, so, so let’s go, let’s go a little bit into the nitty gritty here. Like how would you start a funnel like this? Like let’s, let’s get a little bit granular. So you’re, so you, you’re, you’re, you, you’ve got a new client coming, coming on. It’s a course and let’s just say it’s a whatever, nine 97 price point or something. Um, and , it’s a PR, you’ve identified it as a perfect fit for youtube, meaning that there are, there’s at least 1500 to 2000 like super relevant videos on it, on Youtube. A, you’ve done your SEO research, you know that it makes a lot of sense. The funnel is already converting, you know that the funnel works. So how do you begin to tackle this project object?
Shash Singh: 09:09 That’s a really good question. So we actually have an sop for a, for that in our business, which is we basically have an order of things we test. So obviously we’re going to start out with multiple creatives. So the first thing we do is, unless they already have a quality creatives based on our, you know, judgment, okay, is this great going to convert on Youtube? Does it have the elements of a youtube ad such as, you know, having a clear call to action, having a strong hook, et cetera. So first thing is we take a look at their creative. If they do have a bunch of creatives, then we can immediately start testing those creatives against each other over the bunch of audiences. If they do not have that creative than what we do is we basically go and script those creatives according to the customer research that we have.
Shash Singh: 09:52 So, , whenever a client comes on and we basically ask them for a bunch of information about their customers and then we can use that information to basically script video ads for them. So that’s the first part of it, right? And obviously then there’s all the technical stuff such as making sure your tracking is good and so on. And then you actually get into the campaign set up. And then with the campaign setup. So the first thing you always want to do is you want to go with the easy low hanging fruit first. Go with the easy low hanging fruit first and then go for the tougher, colder audiences. , what do I mean by low hanging fruit? Number one is retargeting. , this is a no brainer, but you start by retargeting your existing audiences. Um, placements are great. So if you find videos of your competitors or if you find specific videos that you think would convert, , for that particular client, those are great places to start.
Shash Singh: 10:41 Keywords are great as well because keywords are basically, it’s kind of taking the metadata from a video and a title and so on and using that for actually putting your video in front of these videos. So keywords are great. Um, we also, we also do really well with custom intent audiences, um, customer affinity, but we kind of like go down that list as the, as we basically we basically test things, right? So we all just started with like the hot audiences first and then we go into the colder audiences. Um, I actually have the, , have are basically what I call our clients launch eaters that open in front of me. , so I’m going to just double check to make sure if I didn’t miss anything on that for you, you can make one quick second. Okay. So basically, um, what we, we have an order and the order is start with retargeting website visitors and youtube end users. , if they have spent $50,000 on their account, then we target their email list because Google has a rule that you cannot, um, target your email list unless you’re $50,000 and spend on your Google ads account and it’s in good standing. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What about those creatives
Matt Johnston: 11:54 at the beginning? Um, because the, the, the creative is always, I mean it’s obviously I’ll make or break. So, , so at the beginning of a campaign when you’re using, I mean very often when, when we in our, in our agency guide social are looking at, um, or looking at creatives, we often approach clients and we’re at the beginning and we’re sort of like, listen, we have a very specific way that we do things that we know converts. But by your saying that you will test client’s existing video creatives that might’ve been used in other places, like they might’ve been Facebook videos for Facebook advertising before, they may have been like, there might’ve been an internal media buying team who was just messing around with Youtube ads. Or maybe it’s TV commercials even. How do you treat that existing video content when you’re sort of appropriating it over to Youtube ads?
Shash Singh: 12:44 Yeah, so we actually have this, , basically a check kind of thing. So we, we, um, take a look at nine different points, um, that qualify the video. So it’s like, okay, does it have a hook? Does a video call out a very specific audience and speak to their frustrations? Is the video formatted properly? Because if it’s a video that’s like a square format and they don’t have the wide screen format, that’s going to be really hard. , is the video quality reasonably good? So it’s not, you know, a photo shot. I mean, it’s not a video shot on a potato phone, you know, just really, really bad. Um, pixelated and blurry. Um, is the audio good? , is the video something that basically has a clear call to action that tells them what to do on the next step? , does the video have some sort of social proof which could be spliced in testimonials?
Shash Singh: 13:32 It could be case studies. It could even be the person, the video being in front of a big audience, which is what Billy Jean does. He Butts, you know, he always has him in front of a big audience and a lot of these video ads, um, and does a video to accurately describe what the user will get once they click the link and take the action they want to. , there are a couple other key points in there as well. But basically if you just go through these, , various elements that we see are really important for a quality youtube ad, and if, if it hits most of those elements, we will test those ads. We’re not necessarily going to be like, okay, this is our ideal. , we will be creating new scripts in the meantime while we’re testing these, but we’re usually like, OK, this is good enough to get started with. This is gonna forget us data and there’s a good shot at making this work. So, , quite honestly, most of the time those creators are not up to par. , and then we just have to tell them to get the, get the new creative stun
Matt Johnston: 14:23 and then you go ahead and you script it for them. Do you also edit it for him or do you ask them to sort of, how much of the creative do you get involved in at that stage?
Shash Singh: 14:31 So since you work with mostly, , infoproduct clients, we, they shoot it, , we do some minor editing, so we’ll do things like adding a call to actions at, in a little bit of captions, but we basically need the kind of the edited version from them, right? Like if they shoot 50 minutes of like video and there’s like half of it’s them kind of just moving around and so on, obviously it’s going to take a lot of time for us to edit that. So we usually get like the, okay, this is the three minute video ad, and then we just add some visual effects to it. So we’re not really a as much focused on a video editing, although that’s something potential in feature we may consider. It’s just not a high priority for us.
Matt Johnston: 15:08 Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally makes sense. Where we’re a little more, , bananas about our stuff. So we always edit the videos, but that’s just because we feel like we need creative control over it, but it’s also a lot more work internally to do stuff like that. So yeah, it makes it makes a lot of sense. And so how do you test these creatives? Um, do you sort of, you sort of, you, you roll out that warm slash hot audience and then you sort of, , you just, you, you, you’ll just, you’ll just put them in their ad groups and just, and just go to work on it. What do you need to see in that testing and how do you, how do you implement it?
Shash Singh: 15:45 Yeah, so a vid that, um, basically one of the things we’re looking at is CTR, click through rate. Um, that’s one really important metric we’ve always found. , when it comes to judging creatives, right? I usually want you want ctrs to be 1.5 plus of one is okay, it’s not great. Two is great, two is like, awesome. Um, but do you want it somewhere in that range? If it’s below one, that’s a huge issue, right? Like we will see creatives that , you know, that are 0.5 and those are just not working. So that’s really important because of the click through rate is high enough, then you’re getting the clicks for cheaper. And then obviously we’re taking a look at the cost per conversion and then the cost per click to look at the landing page conversion rate to make sure we can tell our client, hey, this landing page is working for youtube or this landing page is not working.
Shash Singh: 16:33 So that’s really important and obviously on a high level of your cost per lead and cost per conversion as a second thing we optimize for, right? Like we’re obviously looking at the creative, , in terms of how they’re doing in terms of CTR. But then we’re looking at cost per conversion because that’s also very, very important. And then obviously if it’s a high ticket product, you’re not going to get sales very quickly because you know, if it’s $1,000 or $2,000, you need to spend some money to get that information. So we’re usually optimizing based on those two metrics until we’ve kind of figured out like all right, if they’re getting the like the sort of cost per lead, we usually are getting a profitable cost per purchase as well. Right? Because that’s going to be a lagging indicator because you know, you are not going to get that data in the first year or two.
Shash Singh: 17:15 It’s going to take a while to get enough data to be like, all right, is this campaign profitable? But then we look at their existing benchmarks, right? We take a look at their, , basically, okay. Like before we started the campaign, we sit down with a client, get their numbers and be some bad. We set KPIs for a cost per lead and then as time goes on a V adjust them if they’re too high or if they’re too low. And then we’re always trying to just hit those KPIs. And then we use those rules for optimizing the campaigns. Right,
Matt Johnston: 17:40 right, right. So, , how many creatives do you look to test at the beginning of a campaign?
Shash Singh: 17:45 The minimum would be three if a, the more the better. Like if you have seven or eight creatives, that’s perfect because then we can just test way more aggressively. We often see that, you know, once you get into testing seven or eight creatives, that’s where you can find one that just absolutely out outperforms the others. , but the minimum is three. Like I would not want to start, , you know, add a count without at at least testing like three, three videos unless the other, unless if it’s like two videos but they’re like really well done and they’ve performed on Facebook, then we can start with that. But we always just try to get few creatives than there at the minimum.
Matt Johnston: 18:21 Hmm. Interesting. And so do you do start with placements and keywords right off the bat? Right from day one, while you’re doing testing, you’re testing that as well?
Shash Singh: 18:30 Yeah. So the retargeting, obviously we are getting that set up because they are really targeting, right? Yeah. But then the place placements is like, again, we have, what we’ll usually do with placements is just kind of find the competitors and then scrape the videos from third channel and target those. But a lot of times we’ll be, um, doing keywords. Keywords are just a really great performers for us. And another one that works really well for us is custom intent. Um, this depends on account, but we, in many accounts we see custom intent performing really well. , but basically those are kind of the key ones. And then once we have those kind of working, then we start testing things like, you know, similar audiences, custom affinity, , you know, testing topics and affinity, like just the standard affinity audiences and so on.
Matt Johnston: 19:18 It’s an , it’s, it’s, it’s interesting and just for our listeners who don’t know, maybe what accustom intent audience is, a, it’s a group of keywords that that could reflect the intent of the ideal customer Avatar that are sort of put together and Google, , takes those keywords, analyzes them and sort of pops out an audience for you. That’s a custom intent audience. So sort of leads me into asking you what your perspective is on keywords. How do you, , what are, what is your method for finding the right keywords to go after and how many do you try to go after?
Shash Singh: 19:54 Yeah, so, um, how to find the keywords. So there’s like a few different ways of finding keywords. You can just go on youtube.com and basically put in your main seed keyword into the search bar and a bunch of suggestions will show up. Those are great. Um, another really great way to do it. And I got this from Tom Bruce by the way, which, , who’s a mutual friend. So full credit to him is he actually looks at the titles of videos and then uses, , those titles to come up with more video ideas. Right? Um, I mean more keyword ideas. Sorry. So you know, because if there’s a popular title then and use that as a keyword, you’re going to hit those videos. , you can also use keyword research tools. I think keyword tool that io is one we use. Um, you can use something like tubes theft.
Shash Singh: 20:37 So there are a bunch of ways of doing that and finding keywords. And then when you do search for keywords, you want to make sure they have enough volume, right? Like you don’t want to go for keywords that nobody that are too long tail that people don’t really watch. And we actually with testing keywords. So what we’ve seen is a veal usually ad. So in a campaign we will have one ad group and then we’ll have, , a few different ads and then we will basically add a bunch of keywords into that, , into that ad group, right? And that in that ad group, what will happen is some of those keywords are going to really start taking off and some won’t deliver. , the ones that do take off the best performing one, we tried to turn that into its own campaign to just isolate it and give it the budget, you know, full budget.
Shash Singh: 21:22 And then for the ones that aren’t delivering at all, we’ll usually create a new campaign and put those ones in there just so they get some breathing room because you know, Google doesn’t do a best job, the best job of giving, you know, keywords equal delivery. And so you kind of have to take some of them and put them in a different campaign to give them the breathing room to actually spend and get data on it. We usually find that maybe like the top three to five keywords in the campaign will spend, well otherwise you kind of have to take the rest out. So we kind of take the, you know, ones that don’t deliver out in and put them in a separate campaigns and we take usually the best one out as well. And try setting that up as a campaign as well. That’s something we’ve done and it’s worked quite well.
Matt Johnston: 22:01 Right. And that’s a, that’s that’s a good tactic for scaling as well, right? Is Putting that keyword in its own campaign.
Shash Singh: 22:07 Exactly. It’s a, it’s, it’s really, really great way to get more volume in.
Matt Johnston: 22:12 And so then is that how you, because this is how I often think about it, is that you get that keyword data first before you go to try custom intent. Is that how you look at custom intent or do you try experimenting with that
Shash Singh: 22:25 sooner? I usually go with keywords first and then custom intent after that. Um, and then yeah, basically with some fun media bars, they sometimes have accounts where a customer intent does better than keywords. So they focus mostly on custom intent. But usually I’ve found in my experience 80% of the time you start with the keywords and then expand up to customer intent based on that data you’re getting. And you know, customer intent is kind of like, you know, you’re basically, I’m putting all these keywords in that Google then takes a look at Tara kind of data, right? Like what are people searching for in google.com as opposed to youtube? And then it correlates those people and then you target them on Youtube. That’s kind of how customers turn forks. So you, you know, the more data you have beforehand so you have more accurate kind of information, the better it is.
Matt Johnston: 23:10 Right? And, and with placements and just if anybody wants to buy buy placements, we’re talking about individual youtube videos. And a lot of people really get excited about placements when they find out about youtube ads and that they have played, they’re saying, they say, oh my gosh, I can put my ad in front of any video I want. , but the fact of the matter is, the, the awesome thing about placements is that the relevance can be insanely high. , and you probably see this as well, but also there’s a bit of like a ceiling on placements I’ve found. Have you found that as well?
Shash Singh: 23:41 Yeah, absolutely. I mean if you really want to do, I mean the thing is they do use placements quite a bit. Um, but it’s funny because when we are, we do two for sure when we’re running campaigns and we target based on keywords, it’s pretty much the same as the placements like [inaudible] but it’s just gives it more scale because then you’re including things that you wouldn’t have included in placements. So at a certain point, especially if you’re running a CPA campaigns, Google gets really good at figuring out where your, what your, what your ideal audience watches that. It’s, it’s really funny because I’ll be looking at everybody like, Oh man, this, this one channel. It’s just bringing in a party and x return on ad spend and all the keyword campaigns. Pretty much every campaign we’re running is a that that placement is just showing up, , in that. So yeah, placements are awesome. And you know, a powerful way to use placements is you could create custom creative for different channels so that you could say something like, Hey, I know you’re about to watch this video from Gary v but I just wanted to, , tell you about this. So you can use that. Um, that’s more of an advanced plan. You really need the client and yourself to have the bandwidth to do that. Um, but that’s a, that’s a really smart idea.
Matt Johnston: 24:49 How many placements are you usually toying with at the beginning? Cause I usually go for a lot. I mean I try to find thousands if I can that are relevant and I test them all against each other. Do you go
Shash Singh: 24:59 for a little smaller? We usually go for channels, so we will just target a whole channel and then obviously optimize from there. Like, you know, get rid of the low-performing videos on that channel. So, , that’s kind of how we do it.
Matt Johnston: 25:11 So, and, and I would assume that you’re always starting these campaigns as CPV campaigns, right?
Shash Singh: 25:17 Yeah, we started with CPV and then switch over to CPA. Um, and then we, Avi usually like always keep some CPB campaigns running and just see how they do. Um, and if we’re trying something new, like if you’re trying a new audience, we’re not sure if it’s going to spend, , maybe if it’s like a more niche audience or it’s like a specific kind of a very speciphic kind of thing, then we might start out at CPV until it starts bending and then switch over to CPA. , this really depends on a cop by comp thing. I’ve always seen that the more data count has, the better does the counts we have with like millions of dollars and spend with them CPA campaigns just absolutely crush at a while. You know, it’s all about treating the alcohol while the new accounts that takes, you know, a little bit of easing. Like you kind of need to go with more CPV a, which is cost per view where you know, it basically needs some time to start running and then CPA is the, you know, you’re optimizing for the conversion that whatever conversion you’ve chosen. And for the CPA campaigns, it usually takes a bit more time on your ad accounts.
Matt Johnston: 26:13 Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s interesting, I’ll have people ask me, , because obviously both of us have run Facebook ads in the past and it’s still do to some extent. And we know and we know how it works. And so, and a lot of listeners of the podcast, obviously I’ve run some Facebook ads before, it’s the most popular platform of course, and a deal. So they asked me how it’s different and I often say, well, it’s completely different. But also the, the, the biggest thing is there’s no set it and forget it at all. Really with, I mean at the beginning you are flicking a bunch of switches and turning a bunch of dials and being very hands on in that process because you’re not, I mean, the, the first time you set up a youtube campaign, Google will try to make it easy for you, right? They’ll say, oh, just pick, maximize conversions. Go for leads. Just go get ’em. And, , of course we know that you shouldn’t do that. You should start out with a much more manual campaign to get data into the account, whereas Facebook is really trying to stress just hands off, we’ll figure it out on youtube. It very clearly you need to start out with this very manual testing phase where you get to decide where the money goes to train the account. You’re finding the same thing.
Shash Singh: 27:27 Yeah, we’re seeing the Algo recently really start to work better. Um, there are periods where the Algo doesn’t work that well and then there are periods where it works fall. So I think it’s a work in progress and it’s slowly improving over time. , but I, I do agree with that where you do need to put a ton of hours into it. Like our media buyers spend a ridiculous amount of time on optimization. Like I look at their hubstaff and I’m like, holy crap. Did you really spend that much time on that this week? Like, wow, that’s, that’s a lot of time. Um, which is also why we charge our clients expensive rates because like, you know, if we don’t feel that there’s no way that you’d be able to justify, , justify keeping, you know, like, , the cops running. So it’s a, it’s definitely requires a ton of work.
Matt Johnston: 28:07 Yeah. It’s a ton of work. I mean, cause you’re looking at individual keywords, how they’re performing and then you’re looking at demographics, devices and how those are working with the keywords. And then you’re looking at, you know, hundreds and thousands of placements and how are each of those working. And then once you turn one off, then budget starts getting fed to the next one and then you see how that’s working. It just turns into a thing. But, but eventually it gets a little bit easier, right. When you can switch to CPA and, and, and so, , how long do you wait? I think that there’s like a little bit, I don’t want to say controversy, but I think everybody has a different opinion on this. How long do you wait a, with a new account, we’re going to say a new account to switch over to, , to CPA. And basically just for listeners, when you’re switching over to it, we’re talking about bidding strategy right now. So if you’re bidding on cost per view, you, you might be bidding say 7 cents per view at the beginning and you start optimizing from there and seeing what your CPV has come as. Then you get a certain number of conversions and you feel that the Google, you know, the, the account has enough data to switch over to start leveraging the machine learning. So when do you switch over to leveraging the machine learning?
Speaker 4: 29:16 Yes. So this can be a loaded question cause like it changes all the time. Um, yeah, but I’ve always told my media bars is to start experimenting with CPA campaigns. Once you have 50 conversion, so you know, 50 leads in the account and usually that’s when there’s some data. , sometimes it takes longer or sometimes, you know, I can basically, at that point it starts working. , and obviously, you know, usually we try to get through those 50 cleans asap within a week, week and a half. And then from there it was just kind of a point early, you know, thing of like, okay, let’s learn some CPA campaigns. Did they work? , if they didn’t like keep trying other things and keep pushing more CPA, , CPV campaigns and then try again later and then try again later and then, you know, you eventually had her. Um, and then once they do start performing, it’s a great thing. But again, you have to be just a vigilant because sometimes the CPV campaigns will even outperform the CPA campaigns for whatever reason. , so basically the thing is like, kind of a philosophy I have is all kind of the philosophy you have internally is, , with CPV campaigns you usually have to do a lot more optimization just because, you know, there’s not algorithm working to figure it out. But CPA campaigns, if they’re worth
Shash Singh: 30:28 king well and better than, , the CPV campaigns, then usually the, , don’t optimize as much because Google is kind of like figured it out. Um, and then if you’d just like start narrowing it down too much, it messes with the way things work and it doesn’t get you enough volume.
Matt Johnston: 30:44 So a habit as far as info products go for going back to this nine 97 offer, this theoretical offer that we have, I mean, what does the funnel usually look like? I mean, are you, are you teasing somebody to something? One of the things that I’ve found on youtube is that very often sending someone to a product page is, is too ambitious sometimes and maybe you need to get them into something else first, maybe some sort of Freebie or, or whatever it is or, or, or maybe you’re having a lot of luck sending people right to project to, to product pages. Like how do you, how do you deal with that? Because obviously that’s what you’re calling out in your creative.
Shash Singh: 31:19 Yeah. So we, we, we do a lot of either sending them to lead magnets, our webinars, um, both can work really well. And the thing with Vibewire’s is everybody’s doing them. So you better be on point for the webinars because I feel like two years ago you could, anybody could run a webinar and it would work well. Now you actually need a great product and you need to be really on point for your landing pages, your funnel, your email follow ups, like you need to be optimized, , just because of the fact that the, you know, the traffic has gotten more expensive, um, just because of more competition. So, um, [inaudible] funnel lead magnets and so on, but whatever it is, um, you just want to make sure you really tried to optimize the funnel. Um, so if you were doing this in house, right? Like if you’re doing this all by yourself, I would probably say like, optimizing your funnels should take like more, much more time than optimizing your ads, right?
Shash Singh: 32:07 Like, obviously you do both as much as you can. , but I think the funnel is going to play a much bigger role because with the ad side, it’s usually a lot less ambiguous, right? Like you could easily follow the advice of , Matt or I and just basically have kind of follow like a template, a structure for it and get good results while with the funnel. Um, because you’re selling your own offer and your own product, you kind of have to really tweak things and get into your customer psychology and that requires a ton of mental brain power and a ton of work to just basically make sure you’re a funnel like actually speaks those people and gets them do , you know, basically purchase whatever you’re selling. And Yeah, with, , I’ve heard that like, um, we were just, , I mean the thing is webinars are working really well for us. You can even send them to VSL pages which have like a, you know, they kind of lead magnets but they have a VSL instead of a Webinar. , so like a video case study or something like that. But basically you do, you do want to build up kind of, you know, you want to offer them something before you send them to the sales page because they don’t know what you
Matt Johnston: 33:06 right. And I feel like that has something very specific to say about who the audience is on Youtube. Right? Do you feel that way too? I feel like people come to youtube with a very specific thing that they’re doing in mind and they see your ad and I feel like it almost, it just, it just feels more natural for them to go to another sort of learning activity. Does that make sense? Absolutely. 100%
Shash Singh: 33:29 people on Youtube to learn a lot of times if you’re targeting the right audiences. Um, so they’re there to learn, you know, you want to kind of keep that train going and then, then you want to solve them, you know, at a later point.
Matt Johnston: 33:42 Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s really interesting because a lot of people do try to go right to product pages. Um, and so, so, so with ecommerce, I mean, what do you end up doing there when it’s like strict e-commerce? I’m not sure how much of this you’ve run in, in direct product selling e-commerce, but let’s say you’ve got a, you know, $500 product. Um, are you, you’re still trying to work some sort of lead gen funnel at the beginning. So we haven’t really done any $500 econ products yet.
Shash Singh: 34:10 Done a little bit of ECOMM. , to be fair, I don’t think, , we are like the top guys when it comes to ecommerce. I think like guys like John Belcher have a lot more experience with that. But what I would do for Econ if, , if I would do more e-comm is basically, I’m basically the, depending on the price point, um, that would change things a lot. So if it’s like a, you know, like a $79 price point product, I would definitely aim to get most of the selling done in the video ad before sending them over. And then whatever the landing pages, it should have a lot of information and education about the product. And then basically the whole game would be to try getting the Algo to start working for you. And you may want to try pre presale pages. I believe those I’ve been doing quite well where you’ve kind of warmed them up, but you definitely want to warm them up. It doesn’t have, if it’s like a product page with nothing on it except the picture of the product and some reviews I, it’s gonna definitely not do well. But if it’s actually like a, you know, kind of something that offers value and has a lot of information, I could see that doing better. But I, I would love to hear your thoughts on it since it sounds like you do that more.
Matt Johnston: 35:12 You are, yeah. Well we actually, we do webinar funnels more and they do great. We, yeah, we, we, we do a lot of webinar funnels because people come to youtube because they want to learn stuff and it’s just so, it’s so perfect, right? I mean, that’s why youtube ads are so perfect in that situation because you know, you’re, you’re basically, you’re basically, , you’re, you’re, you’re targeting somebody who clicks on a youtube video because they want to learn how to do x, and then you show up in your video saying, Hey, I’m a super, super expert on x and I’m going to give you this free training on how to do it. So you should watch my free training instead of like Joe Schmoe from like some place in California on this is real youtube video. Why don’t you watch my expert free trial? It’s just like matches. They’re intense so perfectly in that moment. That’s why I love webinars. But I think ecommerce is just more, it’s a more difficult problem, but at the same time, it’s still like a really big opportunity because the intent is still there. It’s still a better audience than you’re gonna find on Facebook usually. So the question is, how do you sell them that product? And you, you know what I mean? I, it’s, it’s a very interesting problem to solve.
Shash Singh: 36:28 Yeah, exactly. 100. 100% right? And, yeah, I mean the thing is like, I mean people are making e-comm on youtube work really well. Um, there are a lot of people running it. Um, but I think the biggest thing that stops to go for most ECOM brands is the creative is a, is is trickier because if you look like at dollar shave club or dollar beard club, one of those, um, Poopourri, um, there was a bunch of other ones by Harmon brothers with the basically used video to sell, sell these e-com products. , that’s what it was. And they just killed it. And then you’ll have other people tried to run e-commerce on youtube but with the worst, greatest possible. And they just make you want to throw up. And it’s just like, yeah, like if you’re doing E-com, you have to, in those three to four minutes, you have to basically get that value across in a entertaining way that, so that people watch it.
Shash Singh: 37:19 Um, it’s not an easy kind of thing. But if you have a really cool product, I mean, obviously there’s value in it. Once people see it and they’re convinced by it, they will buy it. Like, um, you know, so that’s a, that’s a really big part of it. And I guess the mindset as well, right? Like if you’re trying to get the instant sale, yeah, it won’t work. But I think Brian Garvin, he’s a great guy for ECOMM Youtube ads. Um, he actually mentioned this about purple, which was a mattress company that he ran the ads for for know long time. He spent like a hundred million on it. He basically said that, um, the youtube would drive traffic and then search and display ads would kind of clean up after it dried. So it would be top of level at top of funnel, um, there and then like basically, obviously you’d get the people that hire intent, , buying through Google search or search ads or through Google display. Um, but you’re kind of building up that relationship so then you can retarget them with these other traffic platforms and obviously retarget them on youtube as well. But, um, with a high ticket ECON product, obviously you’re not gonna most of the time you’re not going to convert them on the first time they watch a video. It’s just, it’s just the start of the relationship.
Matt Johnston: 38:25 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve seen some success. We do have a $400 product currently we’re selling on youtube and we’ve seen, we were, we’re doing a good role with it by retargeting on Youtube, , or sorry, , by, by retargeting on Facebook. So we’re sort of, we’re, we’re, we’re getting them much cheaper into the funnel on Youtube and then doing cheap retargeting on Facebook on the back end for pennies comparatively. And, , it’s actually, it’s actually working out relatively well. But you know, I think, I think it’s a very good point. Um, hey, this has been great man. Just, just one more cause I always like to make it super practical. What are, like, if you’re just getting into youtube ads, starting out, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got about basic knowledge, but you’re trying to launch what are like the two or three, like biggest mistakes that everybody seems to make in your experience that you’ve seen?
Shash Singh: 39:14 Ah, good one. Um, one mistake is they don’t check their, where the videos are showing up in the placement section. , you want to make sure you’re, all, your budget isn’t being spent on, you know, those videos that parents put their kids in front of. Um, and then just keep them there to watch it. Like I, I literally have seen every time I audit a client’s account, they’re like, oh, we just scan, figure out youtube. I don’t know what it is. Is this platform right for us? I’m like, I look inside, it’s like 90% kids videos. I’m like, all right. They’re still problems. Like they’re just like [inaudible]
Matt Johnston: 39:48 and just, yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and just so everybody knows, , you, you, the, the, the way to see where your ads are showing up is you go to placements and, and you could get sort of sucked into here just looking at the placements that you have, but you want to go up and there’s a tab that says where your ads appeared, I think, or, or where your ad showed something like that. And you click that and it’ll show where your ads are showing up. And again, like since, since the, since youtube isn’t like in its computer learning phase yet, usually when you’re starting out a campaign, who knows? I mean, I have run campaigns where, I mean, all of a sudden I was like, oh, this isn’t working. This isn’t working. When I was first starting out and I would look inside and it’s like Justin Bieber and Puda Pie and I’m like, what are you doing?
Matt Johnston: 40:33 You too. Like, what am I doing in front of these videos? No wonder my click through rate was low. I’m not relevant to these people at all. And, , I think the same thing happened. I did like a live audit and my group the other day with, with someone and I was doing the same thing. He was like, oh, I’m not seeing amazing results. And I looked and again, he had display network turned on and it was just showing in front of like the most random videos ever. Like the most irrelevant stuff. So definitely keep an eye on that because for some reason youtube just doesn’t have a super tight control on that. So you just really have to be proactive about it. Right?
Shash Singh: 41:08 Yeah. I mean Google wants you to spend your money. Yeah. Right, right. And they just know they’re not concerned about saving money in many cases. Um, but you know, yeah, it is what it is. , another tip I would have is um, basically make sure your tracking is set up properly. , this is like the number one thing. Take the time to learn how to set up your Google ad striking, take time to kind of, you know, even duplicate a funnel just for youtube so you have better data because Google ads can be a little, you know, under report quite a bit. So you want to have more accurate data. And number three is the creative. Make sure you hit the, you know, the native format dried, like make sure the video is widescreen, make sure the video shot fairly well. Um, if it looks like it was shot on a potato phone, then that’s not a good thing.
Shash Singh: 41:56 Like people are watching high quality video on Youtube. A lot of times people are, you know, unless they’re listening to music, most of the time when they’re watching something, the video Shotwell and it’s usually not shot on a, on a 10 year old phone ride. Like it’s usually has good audio is usually has good video. And if you think about it, youtube video bloggers, they make a living from making their videos as a, as close to visual crack as humanly possible. So just keep that in mind when you’re creating a video ad, you’re, you’re not on an newsfeed and Facebook where it’s like, yeah, my looking at my kids photos, you’re not competing with that. You’re competing with like people whose whole job it is to kind of make sure they can grab your attention on Youtube.
Matt Johnston: 42:38 That’s great advice. That’s great advice. Match the platform that, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s awesome. Josh, thank you so much. I mean I think that a lot of people are going to get massive, massive value about this. , so much, so much gear. We, I think we go to, gone on for hours talking about all of these things. It’s fun. I love it. I love nerding out on Youtube ads. Can you just tell us again where a, where to go to learn more about your course and your agency?
Shash Singh: 43:03 Yeah, so my agency’s website is links digital agency.com l, I, n x and then digital agency.com. Pretty simple from there. And the course, um, is on that website. You can find it as well. , it’s actually, we just released module one, which is the first part and it goes into all the fundamentals you need to know. And we’re gonna release module two and three very shortly. And those modules actually the price will go up. So right now we’re selling it at a very discounted price just to get feedback and get people telling us what they like don’t like about the course.
Matt Johnston: 43:34 Yeah, folks get, get into this course shash is obviously a genius at this and if you want to learn about this stuff, you want to learn about it from, from people that have spent this much money on youtube testing and optimizing all of these things. But if you know what you’re doing, it is an incredible platform. Youtube and , this, this is, this is one of the guys to, to listen to about it. Thank you so much again Josh for being here and thanks everybody for listening. Super excited about this one’s a great one. I hope you add value. Please, please subscribe, share with your friends. Leave us a review if you got value out of this as well and have an amazing day.