Sometimes when you’re inside a YouTube ad campaign, and you can’t find the exact audience you’re looking for, custom intent and custom affinity audiences are the best place to turn. In both cases, you get to create your own audiences off Google’s big data to take matters into your own hands.
This week, we spoke to Nicholas Ayers of Made You Look Video Marketing about how he leverages these audiences regularly to get incredible results, particularly for local businesses.
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Matt: 00:14 Hey, that’s me. Thank you for that intro. As always, how’s everybody doing today? Thank you so much for being here. We’ve got a great show here for you, but I love it when we, when we can key in on a very specific segment of Youtube advertising that a lot of people aren’t necessarily using all of the time because often when you can test different types of things, you’ll start to see different audiences start to pop. So I’m here with Nicholas EHRs and he works with a very interesting, he works a lot with custom intent audiences and infinity audiences. So that’s what we’re going to talk a lot about today. And of course I’m sure we’ll get to some other things around under the sun. Thanks so much for being here. Necklace.
Nicholas: 00:53 Hey Matt, what’s going on man? Happy to be here. Thanks for thanks for letting me join the join the party here.
Matt: 00:58 Yeah, for sure. For sure. So Nicholas owns an agency and he mostly works with, he does a lot of lead Gen for insurance and I think others as well. D Do you want to just talk a little bit about your background and how you came to Youtube ads?
Nicholas: 01:11 Sure. I think the, it’s kind of an extensive one. So for the last 20 years or so, plus years, I’ve been involved with video marketing long before youtube existed I was involved with video. I got my start working a camera and a public access TV station at 16 years old. A was cheap labor at the time and fell in love with video, fell in love with the editing and the content creation side of video. This was before Internet video was even a thing. And so predominantly I was making videos for small businesses for live presentations and you know, things of that nature. And then the internet came along and about for the last 10 plus years, I really fell in love with the marketing aspect just marketing in general. And so what I wanted to do and, and in that, you know, I fell in love with, with copyrighting and with persuasion and you know, understanding human behavior and psychology.
Nicholas: 02:09 So what I, what I did was I wanted to marry the two things together, video marketing, which is just a mechanism and a vehicle to consistently tell your story or promote your brand. And I’m really trying to use the concepts that you would find in traditional copywriting or advertising in a with youtube. Youtube ads is a fantastic avenue for this, right? It’s just a vehicle, but it’s a fantastic vehicle that allows you to communicate to that. So what we’ve done I’ve started numerous companies. I still own a couple to this day and what I’ve always done is used video as the key mechanism to drive business that way. And this is why I love small business owners predominantly in brick and mortar. Or, you know, digital doesn’t really matter, but helping people scale their business with consistent opportunities and leads which ultimately turned to sales and revenue with youtube ads is kind of where we’re at. So we, we have major live video marketing, which is a training program for business owners to essentially learn those things. Those tactics are really learn the marketing side and how to apply that to the Google platform.
Matt: 03:13 That’s awesome. And why did you choose a youtube ad specifically? I mean, obviously youtube is the video capital of the Internet, but there’s a lot of places where video marketing can happen. Why Youtube?
Nicholas: 03:25 Well, and we do focus on those, but the, that’s not my bias for me. I like to get as close to the sale as humanly possible because I’m not a very good salesperson. And so what that means is, is I’d rather get in front of people when I know that they’re leveraging or when they’re using Google in any capacity. So people are going to be researching when they’re researching, when they’re watching, when they’re learning, that’s when they’re closest to the sale. And in your, there are other platforms that are great. You know, Facebook is a great platform for video. However, it’s a very top of funnel platform. You know, people don’t go, I tell people, people don’t go on Facebook unless they’re there to argue about the president, show off pictures of their kids or share you know, the latest pork chop recipe.
Nicholas: 04:06 And that’s great. It’s a social engagement platform. People go there for community, they go there for engagement. They go there for the dopamine hits that what happens when, you know, they post a photo or a picture or a stats and people love it. Right? That’s fine. If you know how to leverage that, that’s great. But for me, I want to get in front of people who are closest to making a buying decision and that’s why I’m before prefer youtube ads or Google ads over other platforms. Other platforms are great, but just not my bias, not my preference.
Matt: 04:35 Yeah, I know. I, I love that. I mean, that’s what I talk about all the time as far as the where, where you’re at with Youtube ads. I mean, you’re almost getting them down the funnel. You’re actually funneling them through with your video ad creative often and call it buying them. And it, it definitely makes a lot of sense. So I’m, I’m kind of interested to hear. So, so you’re working a lot with local businesses on Youtube ads, right? And some people might say at the beginning, you know, okay, so you’re working with insurance lawyers. These are sort of dry topics often. What are your tactics and strategies to to get conversions?
Nicholas: 05:10 Well, it really all starts and that’s a great question. So yes, to bring further clarity to that, I work a lot with insurance. I work a lot with mortgage and real estate. I work a lot with people who are a brick and mortar, you know, some of them, most of them under 50 employees, but some of them that are over. And really it really all boils down to the script. The script is the most important aspect of a video. It’s not the targeting, it’s not the, it’s not them, it’s not anything. It’s the script. And in the script you have different layers of, of importance within that. And this is where, you know, the, the love for copywriting comes in. It’s to say it translates in script writing. If you don’t have a compelling offer, if you don’t have a compelling reason for people to want to make a buying decision in your favor or to, you know, in technical terms, go from a viewer to conversion, then it doesn’t really matter.
Nicholas: 06:01 You can have the greatest targeting in the world. You can say, Google show my ad to people who meet this criteria, this ratchet or this criteria, this criteria, and they are this exact human being and Google and it’s all infinite power. We’ll be able to do that. However, if your offer is poor, if your script is poor, then your ad won’t convert. I tell people all the time, I am not in the market to buy a timeshare. If someone shows me a timeshare video in an ad, then as soon as that skip button comes up, I skip it. Because I’m not the market for it and the offer isn’t going to compel me to want to change my mind and persuade me to buy a timeshare. It just won’t. Nothing short of you giving me a timeshare for free is going to make me want to buy your timeshare.
Nicholas: 06:50 So this is where using the targeting the Google has, but combining it with this right script is powerful. And so for these industries, mortgage insurance, just take insurance as an example. There are certain pain points that each person who buys insurance or has insurance has, right? And whether it’s auto insurance, whether it’s home insurance, life insurance, medicare, you name it, commercial insurance. Then they are, there are certain pain points that every audience feels. And so understanding who our audiences and what the, the problems that they face are, but really how those problems caused them to feel internally and how it causes them to respond. This is what we want to go after. I want to not sell to the external problem that people have. Rather, I want to sell it to the emotion or the feeling that that external problem causes them to feel. Here’s a good example.
Nicholas: 07:39 Most people a, and it’s a very simple strategy on insurance, is to just target people based on price saved. You know, and we’re bombarded with it, right? But say 15% or more on your auto insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah. That is a very common thing. That’s a very external problem. However, where you have success in your script, and this is, this would go for any vertical where you have good success in your script is when you address the re the, the, the, the feeling or the emotion, the internal struggle that they feel from that external problem. And so this is how we teach a lot of students is how I would teach a lot of our clients is to address the internal struggle that, that, that people feel. Cause that’s what makes a buying decision. People make decisions based on emotions. They justify them with logic.
Nicholas: 08:21 So let’s go after the emotional triggers that people have. So when you’re dealing with insurance, you’re dealing with legal, you’re dealing with mortgage. This same principles apply and it’s really attacking that root problem that the audience has. And, and it’s up to you to know that. And the business owner, and this is why I like working with business owners, because business owners may not be the best on camera at first, right? They’re not used to being on camera. But man, you asked them about their, their customer. You ask them all kinds of good business owners. You ask them what are the customers feeling? What is the problems? Where are the pain points, what are the struggles? What are the one of the problems that they internal and externally, they can nail that down. And when they nail that down, then that makes script writing so much easier. And then you can use Google to target them on youtube in a way that is unlike any other platform because Google owns the internet.
Matt: 09:08 That’s great. That’s great stuff. I was, I was going to follow up and I think you mostly went into it. I mean, you’re saying, you’re saying the script is so important and you know, sort of what are the key points. But I think the key point here as you’re saying is sort of and it’s a general marketing thing obviously to write, but we often forget it is to not speak just about the external factors but about how that makes you feel. Right. The, the emotion tied to it because we, we were never taking emotion out of it because people will ultimately make their decision based on what are your funnels look like. I mean, are they like how direct response are we? You say you’d like to get really close to this sale? I mean, often with youtube we’re, we’re, we, we find, we, we bridge that a lot. For example, my, my agency works a lot with webinar funnels because it’s a training and people are on youtube average 40 minute sessions. They’re sort of geared up for a learning activity like that. But where are you sending people off and right after this ad, are we going to going right to sort of book an appointment? And does that work well for you? How are you seeing the audience take that add and turned it into?
Nicholas: 10:16 Great question. So the w the way that I typically like to run things, remember I’m, I’m working with business owners and a lot of whom are in the financial services. So there’s a lot of qualifying and disqualifying. So my favorite style of lead Gen is to take them from an ad that they see and they click on to a survey. I like survey forms a with conditional logic. So they answer a question a certain way. They go down the rabbit hole and they answer and if they answer a question a particular way, I kick them out. They don’t get to the end. They are disqualified, for lack of a better term. And this, let’s run this example through mortgage. So most lenders, not all, but a lot of lenders will tell you, hey, I don’t really want to work with somebody who has a poor credit score.
Nicholas: 11:01 Okay. Or they’ll say, I don’t want to work with somebody who can’t afford, you know, I’m, I’m here right now in the California Bay area. If someone said, well, I can’t afford any more than $1,500 a month, well they just, the math isn’t penciling out, they’re just not going to able to buy a home. Let’s not waste anybody’s time with this. So we kick them out. So what we do is we run ads to surveys with conditional logic than if they get through the gauntlet of qualifying themselves. Meaning they answered all the questions correctly. They weren’t disqualified on anything based on credit, you know, what they say for credit, what they say they can afford. Then we will run them to a thank you page that redirects from the survey and on that has a calendar booking and they are prompted to book a book and appointment a. If they do not book an appointment, they will get re-targeted until they do book an appointment. But we are running everything from qualifying survey to a appointment.
Matt: 11:57 Yeah, that’s great. So, so, and, and I would assume that it’s even like a slight gamification angle, right? Like it’s sort of like a see if you qualify.
Nicholas: 12:05 Yeah, there’s a lot of that. There’s a lot of that. There’s a lot of you know, complete the quiz. There’s a lot of taking your testament. There’s a, there’s a lot of those different angles for sure. Once they get to a certain page before we ask for a lot of upfront information we bring, we do bring in a little bit of visual letting them know that they do qualify. So if I’m running an ad that targets people who want to buy a home within 60 days, right? You and I know that 30 of those 60 is typically going to be an escrow process. So we’re going after a more more serious buyer, somebody who wants to buy ’em right now with urgency. And we tell them based on the questions that the likelihood that they that they can meet this goal of moving within 60 days, it’s extremely high.
Nicholas: 12:49 Maybe I use the photo, maybe I use emojis. Maybe I use the percentage. A, I’ve done it all. And that is where we ask for information after that, letting them know that based on the fact that they said they can afford it based on the fact they have good credit based on the fact that they’re not working with a lender based on the fact they’re networking with a realtor based on the fact that they want to move based on the fact that they’re employed, all of these different qualification factors. Now if they’re really serious, they can actually do this. And so we let them know that and then we ask for information and then we take them to a booking page or they schedule an appointment and and, and hopes that they book.
Matt: 13:22 Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. That makes it makes a ton of sense. So as far as getting in front of these people, this is, this is super interesting to me, especially for this sort of what I would say dryer a type of stuff, right? Because often when we think about you, so basically on Youtube you’re targeting by placements, which is getting in front of the specific youtube videos, keywords where you’re targeting specific topics slash search terms that people might use in the Google ecosystem, but they’re not direct search terms in youtube. They’re sort of a combination. And then there’s audiences where you can go for in-market or custom intent, et Cetera, et cetera. So what are your best tactics to get in front? Because obviously you’re not as concerned about what videos you’re getting in front of your right. You’re more concerned about the audience in this specific targeting scenario. So what’s your
Nicholas: 14:12 Yeah, I you know, I don’t really do a lot with placements hardly at all. I, I just, it’s not my, not my, not my thing. And I find it to be something that was really popular maybe in the past, but with Google and what they’ve given you now, what tools have they given you now? We, we find that we have a lot more success most times. I mean we do a lot of in market audiences that don’t get me wrong, but we also find that we have a lot of success in different verticals and in different geographic locations using custom intent and custom affinity audiences. So I want to populate a list of 50 to a hundred different keywords and make one big giant bag of, of custom intent audiences and really make them very specific to the offer or to the audience.
Nicholas: 14:57 So I don’t mix terms with URLs. I don’t mix terms with different products. I’m very specific to the product, very specific to the offer. You’d be at life insurance or home insurance will auto doesn’t matter a mortgage prepaid legal, you name it, right? And so we don’t mix and match. And we make very specific audiences and we run those audiences. We have a lot of success in a lot of areas that we’re using custom affinity audiences based on interests, but also different audiences based on URL placement. And we tend to get a lot of that. So again, going back to the idea that we want to get as close to the sale as humanly possible we find that this is the best way to do it. When people are researching, watching, searching for or visiting different pages or websites on the Internet. They’re in there, they’re in the market. But yes, it’s insurance, a very dry, boring topic. It absolutely is, but it’s not dry and boring to the person who really needs to get insurance because they just bought, you know, a $20,000 when your engagement ring for their wife. So it’s not too dry and boring to them. They’re, they’re very much down the funnel, the awareness funnel of needing to make a purchase decision. And that’s what we want to get in front of.
Matt: 16:08 So let’s, let’s drill down. Let’s get a little nerdy about this. So you’re, you’re making your custom intent audience, which some people may know, some people may not know is a very powerful way to create an audience of people that have an intent towards something specific by a group of keywords. Google recommends 50. You’re saying you use about 50, so that’s great. Some people say to validate those keywords first in keyword campaigns. Do you do that or how do you, how do you really drill down on 50 super, super, super
Nicholas: 16:38 For hyper-relevant? There’s a few different ways to do it. There’s kind of a manual way. The kind of guarantees certain things. There is a, there’s different tools. I, I use a keyword research tool that I pay for. It’s a subscription. It’s keyword tool.io. I like to use that and I will really try to find different variances of the keyword that I’m doing. So I’ll go very specific, all look very broad. All kinds of look in and around the whole, you know, kind of radius of that one key word and what they might be searching for, what they’re looking for or the content that they’re watching. And that’s how I’ll populate it populated. Some of my audience campaigns or some of my audiences have 50, some of them have 75. Some of them have up to a hundred. It depends on kind of how big of a geography I’m looking to target.
Nicholas: 17:26 I e. Texas is a much larger territory than Providence, Rhode Island. So you know, really depends on what I’m trying to do there. But I try to really populate it with really strong keywords that people are doing and then different variances of those keywords. And then I hope I’m answering the question here. So I try and I try to run different tests so I’ll have one that’s a little bit more specific versus one more broad, but overall all use the keyword tool io for good research. But I’ll also look on youtube to see what is ranking organically, what content is, is getting to the top and I’ll see what keywords they’re using and what tags are using on those specific videos. Cause I think that’s also very important, right? If I have a video that was uploaded three months ago and it’s got over a 1 million organic views, well I like to jump in front of that a little bit.
Nicholas: 17:26 So I’m going to look for those keywords that are there on that. Cause I want to get in front of that audience. A Medicare is a good example of this. Most people don’t assume that elderly folks who are searching for who are eligible for medicare are using youtube. However, if you just do a, an incognito window and go to youtube and type in Medicare, you’ll find a lot of video content that gets hundreds of thousands of millions of views from people talking about Medicare. Who is watching this content. I can assure you it’s not me, I’m 36 years old, but it’s probably somebody who’s eligible for Medicare. And so the audiences there so to find out, you know, what they’re searching for and what videos they’re watching and what content I want to jump in front of. I’ll, I’ll look up the manually, I’ll look up the keywords that are associated with that video content.
Matt: 19:00 And you’re seeing good results with affinity audience as well, which is sort of, I guess similar to interest targeting that you would see in Facebook sort of. But I’d sort of heard mixed results and seen mixed results with affinity audiences myself. But you’re seeing,
Nicholas: 19:14 Yeah, you can’t, again, it’s not, I mean, if there’s not one strategy that you should lean, you know, lean on your weight on, but a, it should be a combination of both. And so I’ve see, I’ve run campaigns that have, I’ve been murdered on when it comes to affinity on says I’ve run campaigns where I get two or $3 conversions. And so it’s never a guarantee. Yeah, we’re targeting nonprofits this way. This is why I want to target nonprofits. And so, you know, they’re a government entity. Surely they have to go to a certain website on the IRS. Oh, surely they’re searching, they’re researching certain content, especially if they’re new to being a nonprofit. So, so it is you have to think about your audience, right? And this, this is where it comes down to, we put too much emphasis in too much love into the platform.
Nicholas: 20:03 And don’t get me wrong, I love the platform. The platform can go away tomorrow. And if you understand your audience and understand the human behavior, understand what they’re trying to do, and you look at the ad campaign from their eyes and you kind of reverse engineering and it, it doesn’t matter what the platform is, I just like it because of the, the, the, the features that it gives me. But if it went away, we’d figure something out because we know what our audience wants and whether it’s smoke signals, carrier pigeons, Facebook, direct mail or youtube, right. And none of it’s, you have to be cautious that you don’t fall in love with the, with the platform, and you fall more in love with knowing the audience and where they’re segregated, where they’re hurting, you know, w where are they at, where they are together. Youtube just happens to be a fantastic place that has a lot of them.
Nicholas: 20:50 And so that’s why we like it. But if there was something that came out tomorrow for video marketing where everybody was on it, well, we’d figure that out next. I mean that’s, that’s, you just use the bells and whistles that it has available to you, but you can’t fall in love with the mechanism and you can’t fall in love with the individual strategy. Some people will live and die by placements. I personally, I don’t have any successful placements and they’re very hard to scale. So I don’t do a lot with placements. I’ve heard a lot of people dog dog words and they’ll say, well, keywords aren’t very good because you know, people don’t properly tagged their videos. That is more or less true, but it’s still a much easier way to get a cheaper cost per view and cheaper cost per click by doing it then by other, by other avenues.
Nicholas: 21:35 And so you have to kind of run the gamut a little bit. You have to kind of see what works for you and what works in California may not work in Ohio. What works on one. What works on one niche may not work on another. And so you have to, that only comes with experience and that only comes with actually doing it. And Luckily we’ve done it enough and we, you know, but we’re not always perfect. And when we’re not perfect, we think, okay, what’s bad, what’s the backup, what’s plan c with plan d, You know, and, and we go that route. So, so what is the best the best avatar exercise that you can do with regards to youtube? A lot of good trainings that really helped me with this. Aside from being, you know, what we do with, with Google ads, we’re also a strong brand guide.
Nicholas: 22:18 I’m not sure if, if some people in the audience might be familiar with story brand. And you know, Donald Miller, who’s a, who’s a really good author, runs Troy Brown. I, I take a lot from him when it comes to finding my my audience and my avatar. Really, it’s trying to figure out, okay, who do we want to target? Now let’s figure out who the what the ideal, what’s the biggest problem that they face is and we find when we figure out what the ideal or what the external problem with the faces, then we really want to attack what the what the, how that problem makes them feel. And once we know that, then we can kind of get behind some of the philosophical reasons why they would want to do business with us. So it’s really a, aside from doing those things, a lot of it is market research.
Nicholas: 22:56 A lot of it is surveys. A lot of it is finding out what our customers want and what they say that their biggest problems are. But I asked, you know, I kind of go through a list of 16 different questions a lot of times that I, I focus in on when I’m struggling, okay. Who they are as a, as a human being, what their biases are from all things, from religion to politics to the food that they eat. Right? I’m trying to understand who they really are and then I really want to get down to the emotional reasons on why they make decisions. So what are the injustices that they, that they hate? What are the or the biases that they have? What you know, what, what do they, what do they want what do they want their ideal self to be? How do they envision themselves once they do those things and I get a really clear picture as to, you know, if I’m looking at a new audience, I really get a clear picture as to how I want to attack it, for lack of a better word.
Matt: 23:46 That’s great. Do you, do, do you have any specific soft stats that you’re looking at? I mean, I, I love to drill down on the the nerdier stuff for lack of a better term. I mean, what are you looking for? I mean we’re usually looking for about a 1% click through rate or so, but often when I’m testing audiences, the thing about when I, when I’m often using placements and keywords, because I do see placements working relatively well for certain niches and for others they just bomb. I see keywords work very often. But for both of those I’ll often see like they’ll, they won’t always feed out the whole budget. They have to ramp up, you know, et Cetera, et cetera. Audiences usually feed out instantaneously and spend all your money. I usually know if they work or don’t work right off the bat and you probably see that, see a similar trend. What do you, what do you,
Nicholas: 24:34 Yeah, so now look at my clicks to conversions in my ad spend. So those are the three biggest metrics that I look at. And so what I want to see if, if, if I am not hitting and this is a bare minimum, if I’m not, if I get a hundred clicks and I don’t have at least 10 conversions, so 10% from a conversion to clip then I know that there’s a problem. I really want to be kind of in that 15 to 20% range. That’s how I know I’m really having a winner. But I would, depending on the niche, my cost per click to be whatever but if I don’t have at least 10% or better as a minimum that I know that we have, we have issues. A lot of the stuff that we target and our customers target is higher ticket. And so that 10% is okay with me.
Nicholas: 25:19 You know, somebody, you know, on a life insurance policies, somebody might make $2,000 on commission on that. So they’re okay spending $20 a lead. Right? They’re okay with that, with a close ratio of whatever. They know that their cost per acquisition, it’s still extremely, extremely profitable. So those are the metrics I look at. I don’t put a lot of stock into you know, view rate. I don’t put a lot of, I mean I look at it, I, I’m cognizant of Clifton rate, I’m cognizant of it, but really what I’m looking at is clicks, conversions, cost per conversion. That’s really what I’m, where I’m focusing on. And that makes it really simple and allows me to be a little bit more efficient in what we’re doing.
Matt: 25:58 Yeah. And, and do you ever know exactly are there certain markers that will tell you whether it’s the
Nicholas: 26:03 Yeah. Yeah. So audience or the crave, I know it’s not quite, let’s say like a mortgage ad. If my cost per click is above $2, I know we have a problem and that just comes from running it a lot if I know that. So if I’m not getting the clicks, then it’s a problem with the, with the script, it’s a, it’s always a problem with the ad. The Ad’s job is to get you to the landing page. It’s a landing page convert. So if I’m not getting clicks, it’s a creative problem. It’s a script problem.
Matt: 26:31 You wouldn’t say that that’s a targeting problem?
Nicholas: 26:34 Well it could be a target. I mean they make it so dummy proof and a lot of these cases, if you’re trying to try to get life insurance, you’ve got 10 life insurance keywords in there or you know, you’ve got a a hundred custom intent keywords in there for life insurance and it’s done. We’re assuming that the target is a c plus or better. Then I believe it’s a scripting issue. If I’m getting a ton of clicks but no conversions, well then my landing page is the bomb. The ad did its job, it got lots of clicks, but they got, they got freaked out on the, on the landing page. You know, it’s like, and this is why your landing pages is almost as equally important, if not more important than the ad itself, right? Cause it’s the Ad Delaney page in the survey that has to do the heavy lifting and if the mouse sees one hair on the cheese, it’s going to freak out and run. And so, you know, it’s gonna. You have to make sure that your landing page is really, really tight and legit.
Matt: 27:26 Yeah, that’s, that’s a, that’s a really good point. There’s only so much we can do driving traffic gaps. Totally. All right. Well thank you so much for being here. Where can we find out more about you and your, and your program?
Nicholas: 27:37 Yeah, I mean, people can go to, to my website, there’s a couple of different outlets. I have a free Facebook group. It’s a freemium group. I, you know, people on this, if they’re marketers, they’re aware of this. We do tell people we do promote our program, although it’s, it’s 90% Info Intel and maybe only 5% sales. And the rest is, you know, shouldn’t it shenanigans, but they can go to our Facebook group with, they just type in major league video marketing youtube ads for small business. They can find our free group. They can contribute, they can ask questions. I’m gonna, I’m not gonna hold anything back. We’re gonna discuss youtube ads and strategy or they can go to my website if they want to learn more about our program. At www dot made you look, video.com made you look video.com.
Matt: 28:18 Thank you so much for being here. Great to get your insights about local businesses and these, these specific niches. And there, there’s a lot, there’s a lot here that people are going to be able to use in their own campaigns. So thank you so much and thanks everybody for being here. Have an amazing day. We will see you next week and good luck this week.