Do you believe that being funny is something that can be taught and learned? Or is it simply something you’re born with and either you have it or you don’t?
Certainly some are funnier than others and comedic talent is a real unicorn. But there are definitely some comic principles you can learn to up your funny video game.
We always, in our YouTube ad creative, want to be known, liked and trusted. One of the quickest ways to do that is humor – so how do you create stuff that’s funny? On the podcast this week I spoke with Kenny Wassus, the brains behind hundreds of viral videos. He’s worked with everyone from Nick Offerman to Eric Andre to Kylie Jenner, and is a master of funny videos. He gave us some very real tips we can start thinking about right away to up our funny game on YouTube.
Release Date: 7/26/19
Host: Matt Johnston
Guest: Kenny Wassus
Matt Johnston: 00:00
Matt Johnston: 00:16 Hey, what’s going on everybody? Matt Johnson here with you, , excited here today because we have, , video production on our minds today. And I think that a lot of times when people get into youtube advertising or they’re thinking about getting into youtube advertising, one of the things that they always end up coming up against is, okay, great. I’ve heard how great this platform is. I should totally be advertising on youtube. It’s the world’s second biggest search engine. It’s, you know, it’s obviously an extremely popular place. People are watching it more than they’re watching television. Okay, I’ll put my ads there. And then they’re like, ah, I gotta make video. And then they don’t know how to make video. And it ends up turning into like a huge thing. So we’re going to be talking about that a lot in the podcast, obviously about how to create these video ads.
Matt Johnston: 01:02 , but I wanted to bring in someone, , that I’ve worked with a lot. , and, and would trust with my video life if necessary. , but, , his name’s his name’s Kenny wall, says, Hey Kenny. How’s it going? Good man. How you doing? I’m doing good man. , so Kenny, , it can be worked with me in New York magazine when I was, , the, what was it like? I was, I was executive producer in New York magazine, , running the video team and, , Kenny ran all of our series in original content and, , I wanted to bring in Kenny because, , I think that what we’re trying to do often, and you know, I’ve, I’ve talked about it before about how we use this specific method for scripting youtube ads, which gets people to know, like, and trust you within the space of the pre-roll Youtube ad.
Matt Johnston: 01:54 And so they’re very super warmed up when they’re on, when they’re on their way to either buying your product or signing up for your Webinar or, or, or whatever it is. And a comedy is an incredible way to do that. And if you can find ways to integrate comedy into this process. And again, you know, this process basically just a scripting process and Kate and Kenny probably doesn’t know. I mean really very often we’ll have someone talking to camera, although you know, certainly you don’t need to do that if you follow this format. But often we do have someone talking to camera and we’ll, we’ll go through this process, which is almost like a little mini webinar where we’re at, where we’re basically we’re calling out the problem and the Avatar at the beginning. , we’re, we’re saying that we, we, we understand we were in their position and we fixed it and we’re going to show you how we did it.
Matt Johnston: 02:41 , you know, trying to get people out before the 30 second mark cause you don’t have to pay for people that skip the ad before the 32nd mark. So trying to get people that are not qualified out and then going into your authority building and then going into actually providing some real value or entertainment or demo, like whatever it is. And all of this is there so that you are more known, like and trusted as you’re trying to move people towards your offer. So one of the great ways to do that, to be known, like in trusted is by using comedy. I mean, comedy is a great way to spark empathy, which is my favorite word on planet earth when, when it comes to the Internet, empathy is the heartbeat of everything. If you want to know why we click any link, watch any video, usually at the heart of it, it’s empathy.
Matt Johnston: 03:30 It’s because we identify with something. And very often that identity is tied to some sort of emotion. And why do you laugh? You know, physiologically, like you laugh physiologically because you’re feeling some sort of emotion in that moment. So if we can find a way to work comedy in there, , I think that it’s a huge, it’s a huge thing. So Kenny Kenny has been doing this stuff forever. , he worked at a IJR for awhile, made some incredibly big videos, a couple of viral videos with Kylie Jenner and Wendell. , right, right. And, , and , Sarah that, that, that, that Sarah Palin 31 rock video, which, , also went viral, which he was, he was a, he was responsible for, and then he came and joined me at New York magazine. And you did all sorts of comedy stuff with us in New York magazine. I mean, I know we did. , I mean obviously I always think about the, , why can’t I remember his name? Eric.
Matt Johnston: 04:27 Eric Andre Video, which, , I was actually looking at our chat because you and I never really talk on Messenger. We’ve only texted, but the last time that I sent you a message on messenger was like when we were still working together I think, or maybe it was just right after and , it was just sending you the Eric Andre video and saying, dude, do you know this has like over a million views now. Like it’s just quietly gone way over a million views and that you didn’t even know, of course, cause this stuff just like, it’s a slow bleed. So I just wanted Kennedy to come on and talk a little bit about how he makes his comedy happen because it’s a weird thing because comedy seems to often be, , comedy seems to be one of these things where, , it’s like, oh, I can’t teach that.
Matt Johnston: 05:14 And so if I can’t teach that, I can’t learn that it’s just something you’re born with, but I don’t really totally buy into that 100%. So I’d love to just talk to you Kenny, a little bit about what specific strategies you use, , both in production production, , and even in the, , in the idea generating phase, which I know you’re incredible at generating ideas for comedy, , and , and sort of how you make that work. , yeah, I, I’d love to hear about that. And even if, if we could start even with the idea phase, I mean, how do you approach this stuff from, from the idea phase?
Kenny Wassus: 05:57 my approach has been for doing anything comedy related , is I don’t consider myself a really a comedian. And Anyway, I, I’m a, I like to produce with comedian. So my approach I think always been is it if you have access to a very funny person, be a celebrity or whoever, , just create an idea, a format, the concept that really just enables them to do what they do best. I think if you look at, you know, the Eric Andre Video, if you look at, , you know, this video I did with Tim high deck or this a hundred years of Steve Bannon thing, you know, there was no real, you know, I didn’t do anything besides just create a box for them to put a work in and do their best work. And, , I mean Eric Andre is someone who is like, who is amazing if you work, if you follow him, he’s like, great.
Kenny Wassus: 06:57 You know, man in the street videos, he does great candidates stuff. , so I was like, how can we come up with something that made sense with a brand New York magazine at the time? And also for Eric Andre and you know, part of, you know, with New York magazine, highbrow lowbrow. So I figured, hey, why don’t we take Eric Andre, you know, who has this sort of, this, you know, absurd as low Braley type art approach, , and pair that with, you know, highbrow, which was New York City public art. And having him critique that and then just having those variables of him versus the people of New York and these are, and I just really trusted that, you know, trusting the people you work with. And if you have funny people and you set them up for success, they’re going to be funny. You know,
Matt Johnston: 07:44 I love this idea though. Like, let’s, let’s, let’s draw a little bit more on this. I mean, we, we worked together on this one a lot. Wow. Whatever. Like I was just like the guy that like signed it and was like, Yep, this is good stuff. Let’s let the Internet see it. But, but, you know, of course I initially approved it, but, , , , but, but, but I think that this is a good example. Like, so let’s, let’s dissect this a little bit. So what, but, but, but there must’ve been something in there as well that made you say, this is going to be funny. And like, I feel like it’s similar to the Steve Bannon thing too. , and, and even 31 rock and really like all of this comedy stuff that you’ve done in the past. Is it the, does it have to do with this sort of polar opposites type thing, like a fish out of water? I mean, is that like a sort of similar, a similar theme in some way? Certainly that’s true with Eric Andre. But are we getting closer to something here?
Kenny Wassus: 08:41 , I mean, firstly, just the disclaimer on a 31 rack, I would say it’s a stretch to call that comedy. I’d say it’s comedically bad. , so, but I think what made that, that, you know, we can get into that. Why I think that work, I think that was, it works, if you can call it that metrically, , not because it was funny, but because I think it just pissed people off. , and in terms of the, , the Eric Andre stuff and why worked, , and even, I mean even with like I would say it’s like, I mean you have like an incongruity there, like you have like something high brow like public art by these famous artists and then you have this absurdist comedian who, you know, we, you know, I asked him to interpret the art. So you just knew that whatever his response was going to be is not going to be what, you know, hi, how an art critic would look at these pieces of public art.
Kenny Wassus: 09:43 We look at it. So then you have that sort of incongruity there and then you also have you the chance of these weird interactions with people on the street because you have New Yorkers who are just notoriously new Yorkers either. They’re funny, they’re weird, they’re impatient. So you have someone pressing them. I mean I just felt like there’s this cocktail of comedic possibility I guess. And , and it came through and it was crazy cause he showed up. I think he had just woken up yet a copy in his hand as soon as I hit record like he was on and , and he just, you know, it was just enabling him to do what he does best.
Matt Johnston: 10:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, , well, right. And then, you know, you, you, you, you’ve mentioned that before, along with what would you do to do best? What if you were to asked to make a sort of comedic piece with someone that wasn’t inherently comedic, what would that process be? , look like?
Kenny Wassus: 10:42 Oh God, that’s scary. , I dunno. Can you as the real, , Eh, I guess you could rely on that. You could try relying on the editing and do like a lot of times, I mean, so much of the Internet hor is, or with like funny, weird Internet video, like awkwardness is a vein that can be tapped for comedy. So if you have somebody who like, may not be funny and it’s trying to be funny and it’s just terrible, you can sort of hone in on that in the editing, you know, do some weird zooms. I don’t know. Sound effects? , yeah. I don’t know. I mean that’s, that’s a difficult channel. Like trying to be funny with non funny people. I don’t know if that, if you can do it.
Speaker 4: 11:27 Yes,
Kenny Wassus: 11:28 I’d say find people funny people everywhere, you know, it’s just, , finding the right people.
Speaker 4: 11:37 Okay.
Matt Johnston: 11:37 Is, is there something to be said for sort of, I mean, is it always necessary for the person to be funny? So I’m going to challenge you on this a little bit because I don’t think so because I think that you have made enough videos in your life, which I have found that have some to them. Yeah. But don’t actually have any han being in it. I mean, from anything from, , you know, there have definitely been simpler social videos that you and I have made together where you’ve managed to inject a little bit of wet, or maybe it’s a other things that you’ve just sort of shot around and you’ve said this needs, like, this needs a little bit of a blast of the, , a blast of the unexpected in a way that some might call hor. So, I mean, there’s got to be something there at the core thematically that can sort of get you to, , you know, sort of like that, that comedic place without needing to work with somebody. That’s right. Does that make sense?
Kenny Wassus: 12:35 Yeah. Let me, , let me, yeah, I mean, of course then you, you then I guess whoever this person would be who would be trying to do this, they starting to have to start thinking I guess, comedically, , with whatever source material they have. , I’m just trying to think of like a good example of something where I produced in the past that wasn’t maybe on its face, funny or inherently funny and then how it was dressed up. , I’m trying to think of a good, I mean I made like, I used to do all these vines with content where it was politicians oftentimes who
Speaker 5: 13:19 cool
Kenny Wassus: 13:20 words, funny. They weren’t funny moments and I’m right. It’s just looking for stuff that you can reinterpret and recontextualize and , and yeah, I’m just trying to think. Do you remember any good examples of like where it was? I W it was like a video that I worked on that like was, I’m just trying to,
Matt Johnston: 13:40 sure. There’s, there the, I mean, I’m sure there’s a lot of examples. One, I mean there’s one, I mean, did, didn’t you make some viral video of some like a congressman and senators, , doing a, like, like what were they smashing phones or something like that? What was that video?
Kenny Wassus: 13:57 So I mean, okay, well, I mean like, yeah, I guess that’s a good way to look at it. , yeah,
Speaker 5: 14:02 we,
Kenny Wassus: 14:03 it was early on in the 2016 election. This is when I was at IJR. I’m one of Donald Trp’s first antiques was he gave out senator Lindsey Graham cell phone nber and this public broadcast. And it became huge news because that was like the first time that like he had started just acting like Donald Trp, , and the 2016 trail and it became this big news story. And then we ended up having access to Lindsey Graham and one of our producers, , sort of pitched him, , destroying his cell phone because of course, as a result of Donald Trp giving out a cell phone nber is going to be getting barraged with all these calls. , and , so we pitched him on that and believe it or not, this sitting, , Lindsey Graham sitting US senator agreed to come in and destroy some cell phones and I think we sort of like sold it to him like, Oh, you don’t have to do anything crazy.
Kenny Wassus: 14:59 But we of course created this crazy obstacle course for him, you know, with the Catana and a golf club and, and you know, all these weird ways to destroy yourself on throwing it off a roof. And he came in and, you know, the initial promise of like just, you know, breaking a cell phone in a couple of ways, ended up turning into this, him doing the actual obstacle course and being totally game to do it. So, yeah, I guess we took like pretty dry subject material source material on which was like a US senator responding to a politician doing something and did it in a way that was very visual and very internet. And then, you know, again, and I think a lot of comedy is just in congruity I guess, or you have this, you know, the Gravitas of a sitting senator and the seriousness of politics with them doing, you know, him destroying the cell phone in this southeast different crazy ways.
Kenny Wassus: 15:56 , ended it, ended up going really well and he was game and he did it and it was a really fun shoot and the video went gangbusters. And , you know, it got picked up on, you know, John Stewart and cold bear and all the late night shows. , pretty much every news broadcast had it running. And that sort of became our thing, I guess. You know, I guess the magically, you know, that’s what we were doing with politicians, that we were taking sort of like the seriousness of the 2016 election and all of these very thirsty politicians and just having them do really absurd things. And I think early on in that election, they were just really desperate to be seen and be, you know, be noticed in the pack. And all of a sudden we became known as this place where, you know, we can give you a viral video as long as you come and play ball with us.
Kenny Wassus: 16:48 So, you know, we did that with Lindsey Graham. We also had, , what else did we do? We had, , and this one I W I wasn’t on this one, this was another producer, but Ted Cruz cooked machine gun bacon at one point, which is, , our video. , and then what we had Carly Fiorina, oh no, we had, this one was actually one of my, I get, I wasn’t, I pitched this video and then it was produced without me and the guy went out to Iowa and did it. But it was like, I think we should have all these thirsty presidential candidates part in Turkeys. , so one of the producers went out to Iowa during like right before the caucus, I think, and he actually wrangled a, , a Turkey, oh, I don’t know, a Turkey farmer, I don’t know what you call them. I’m someone with a Turkey.
Kenny Wassus: 17:38 And he got them in his room after this convention and it was just this really bizarre video. I think one of the funniest parts of the video that wasn’t easy. It was just totally accident. What does that, this Turkey t to, for it to be safe for these presidents that come pardon? In pet or whatever. You had these like disembodied hands at the bottom of the frame. They were holding the Turkey’s legs from behind the table. , and it was just as bizarre video where you had, it was like Ben Carson, Marco Rubio, Carly Fiorina. Who else was in that? I think there was one more, but they were all pardoning this Turkey and giving their commentary on it. And it was just a such a bizarre, you know, some people might think it’s funny, some people thought it was weird and awful. Some people at the end of the day, it achieved its goal, which was to get people to watch it, talk about it. , and I think sometimes, and that’s sort of been my approach with some of those videos early on was like maybe less about trying to be funny and like, how can we get, do we, how do we do something that is going to get people to talk about it? So, , and that was sort of our guiding me folks, I guess for some of those weird cloak videos.
Matt Johnston: 18:49 Yeah. But it really, it really comes back again to that opposition thing. It’s like that fish out of water thing again. Right? I mean, you’ve got these, you got these senators and then you have the, I mean the, this like obstacle course, right? I mean, you have the machine gun bag, obviously this is like a, yeah, I mean it was that, it was sort of a, yeah. But, , , it’s, it’s still that sort of opposition thing. I feel like I, I’ll never forget when I was hiring you and you sent me your spec video, I felt that that video was really funny for a little social video. I mean, this is one of the things that I, this is like, one of the things that I built my career on was these, these like little viral one-minute Facebook videos and , what I felt like, what I felt like, , you were able to do in that test video. You don’t even remember it. I’m sure. I know. You know what I’m sure you know, like, I just, I just remember like, like stock footage. I mean obviously there were things that were like, just inherently funny, like arrested development clips and stuff. But, but I also think that like, I just remember stuff like, it was a science, it was a science video. I think like you were covering a scientific topic and I don’t remember what it was now, but I just remember this type of video clip. What was it?
Kenny Wassus: 20:08 It was like, , siblings and how they’re like more younger siblings or more emotional or something like that. Or I can’t remember. ,
Matt Johnston: 20:19 right. Right, right, right, right. But I just remember this stock video clip of these like to like random people like having a pillow fight and it’s just absurd like in that moment, even though like it might’ve been a toss off to you, I just feel like this is your comedic intuition coming out in that moment. I’m thinking to myself, okay. Like he knows like he is like, he knows, I’m like, he’s in on the joke with the, like he’s bringing the audience in on the joke them cause the audience all sort of knows that it’s a stock video clap and like it’s just absurd. Like absurdly cute and makes no sense.
Kenny Wassus: 20:56 Yeah.
Matt Johnston: 20:57 Again, yeah,
Kenny Wassus: 20:58 a lot of that, a lot of that video. I actually, I just, I found it on my computer. Yes. , but yeah, it was like, it was me just leaning on recontextualizing people who already funny that. And it was sort of understanding the source material that I was working with was that it was like this study on, , parents and, oh, I think it was parents and kids, they like most youngest or oldest or something along those lines. And I just immediately thought of arrested development and, , you know, Mrs Bluth because she had this relationship with job and, , Tobias and, or not to bias, , just the relationship with Joe. Why can’t I think of the other one, Michael? No, not Michael. Well, yes, it’s Georgia. , I don’t know. Essentially she was just like this very mom who had, , you know, these crazy relationships with their kids.
Kenny Wassus: 21:57 And I was like, oh, I can recontextualize these clips to fit this, you know, this text van screen video and try to make it something that, you know, allow that footage to whole, make it funny, I guess. So I just used a lot of those clips. I think so much of the Internet is just recontextualizing stuff. Like you can do so much funny things with the recontextualization of stuff that I already exist, you know, editing stuff. , around whatever idea that you’re working with. And that was where a lot of that video was just, you know, Mrs Bluth being funny. And then, you know, I think I had a clip in there with like, what does it Mark Walberg screaming about being a peacock or something. And Mark Walberg actually is the younger, the youngest child and his family, , and how they use this, the study showed the youngest kids want more attention. So I was like, oh, that works. So it was recontextualizing that moment. So it was much less about like making the script funny and just finding stuff that already exists. It was funny and applying it and recontextualizing it to, to work within the framework, I guess, if that makes any sense.
Matt Johnston: 23:02 Yeah, I mean recontextualizing I mean it’s, it’s a really, it’s, it’s, it’s a cool thing that’s coming out of this, I mean, like all of this stuff is like you’re playing an oppositions. I mean, you’re, and it’s, and you’re doing fish out of water type stuff and yeah, I mean like you’re, you’re, but I, I feel like this is adaptable across the board. You know, because it’s just not a way that people often think. I think that people are often thinking in alignment with a singular topic. And I feel like maybe the brainstorm, the brainstorm strategy when you’re saying that you want to inject a little bit of comedy is maybe just do thought experiments around, you know, sort of fish out of water type stuff. I mean, if you can find a way to recontextualize this boring thing, this boring person in. So I mean that’s basically the formula for absurdism. So, ,
Kenny Wassus: 23:58 yeah, if you look at a lot of what’s really successful, I don’t know, and I don’t know what this says about the internet or youtube or video or at large, is that so much of youtube now is just people react to videos and they’re just massively successful. Everybody has one of these series. Like you can look at the biggest publishers on the Internet. You can look at wired. I think New York Mag doesn’t, I think every damn large youtube channel does it. It’s like people react to things, you know, a dinosaur experts react to dinosaur scene. So then all of a sudden you have an in congruency there where you’re like, okay, we have somebody who has some authority. It was probably pretty self serious and there’s this nerdy science type person and they’re going to have to look at these silly dinosaur videos. You have an incongruity there.
Kenny Wassus: 24:44 You want to see the reaction. And I think just like from a broad stroke is that like people, that’s what people want to watch. They want to see people react to things. They want to see sort of that friction. And I think that sort of does guided a lot of what I’ve done in the past like is always trying to create an environment where there’s going to be some sort of reaction that you’re going to have some sort of friction. Like even with, , you know, I produced this series toward the end when I was at New York Mag with Jerry Salts. Like you have someone who is this highbrow or, and I, I wouldn’t want to say Jerry Super High Rye. I think he’s more accessible than other art critics. But you have something as highbrow, his art and our criticism and these famous pieces of art. And I took replicas and reproductions of, you know, for example, like, , Michael, like the, , Michelangelo’s David and I can find a reproduction and I put it in a New York subway with Jerry faults.
Kenny Wassus: 25:43 And I was like, okay, this is the environment. We have something that’s very highbrow art, art critic or putting it in something that’s very gritty, , available to everybody and all walks of life in New York subways, you know, you never know who you’re going to have him there. And we just sort of waited. And at that point it was just, I was like, I knew Jerry was amazing with, , pretty much anyone. He’s just great. He’s a great talker. He’s great, he’s very candid in interactions and he’s obviously very informal as an art critic. And you had all this, we just had all these amazing interactions and it was just sort of taking those variables and creating an environment for them to work. And it does sort of come back to what you’re saying is like these incongruities the fish out of water, like creating something where if you’re working with, you know, if you’re a small business and you’re working with someone who specializes in one thing, take them out of what they specialize in. Nobody wants to see them do what they know they can already do. Challenge them, put them in a predicament where they’re going to have to react and truly have overcome something or be faced with something. Cause that’s what makes it more interesting to watch. Not something that people just can already anticipate and expect what the outcomes will be.
Speaker 6: 26:53 Okay.
Matt Johnston: 26:54 That’s, yeah, that’s, that’s awesome. I mean, and, and, and at some point I think I need to do a whole episode on how you would sort of direct people, , in general. , because I, cause I feel like, you know, I used to, I spent all my twenties as a theater director. Right. And, and when I am on set, like working with working with actors, , or like just not actors, but even just, just people in general, when I’m shooting youtube, when I’m shooting youtube videos or when I’m shooting, whatever, , I often find myself directing the, the, the person, the subject to just fricken boom, like do the like just do stuff like be you like, don’t be like a virgin, like a different thing. Like let the, let the concept and the framework that we put you in do the work and then just actually do it.
Matt Johnston: 27:40 So if you actually put a challenge in front of them, like you need to carve this Turkey with like your eyes closed, you know, it’s just like, you know, I mean like it’s, it’s different. So it’s kind of like, a lot of times I think you can think about the result when you’re actually like shooting, when you’re, when you’re actually shooting the thing. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s really interesting stuff. So I think this is a huge, this is a huge takeaway. I mean, it’s like if there’s like one comedic exercise you can do. I mean, you could brainstorm on how to recontextualize and flip certain scenarios, like how do you put, you know, like how do you put a diamond inside of a, like, you know, like a diamond ring inside of like a, I don’t know, like a clamshell or something. And like, like how do you put like something extremely one way and put it inside something extremely another way and then just sort of see what happens. And it’s kind of, it’s kind of an interesting concept. Now what about editing? What about post production? How much of, how much of, how much of comedic stuff in post-production are you thinking about during production? I mean, I always preach when I’m talking to like new video producers and, and what not that you need to be thinking about post-production while you’re shooting. And obviously any good video producer would do just that. But how does that process work for you?
Kenny Wassus: 29:02 Are you talking like, like comedically in post production or just in general thinking about producing with post-production in mind, what, you know, adding motion in post?
Matt Johnston: 29:12 Yeah, let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s talk specifically about, about, about comedic elements.
Kenny Wassus: 29:17 , I’m trying to think of a good example of where I’ve sort of produced with post and my, Oh, I mean like, , I think that like,
Speaker 6: 29:33 yeah,
Kenny Wassus: 29:34 going back to when we first did, , that Rick and Morty, , improv thing with the cast of Rick and Morty, , that was just them. The first video was just a round table of them doing this. Like we gave them this, this prompt and let them just be themselves. And it was them being funny and then that’s what they do best. And then the second time around I pitched them on, I was like, all right, I’m gonna create another container for an idea for them to work in, which was, it’s like Rick and Morty go to spongebob, you know, like put Rick and Morty and spongebob world, like some, some sort of crossover thing. And that was like the prompt. And I was like, all right, let’s see what they come up with. But the entire, what I had in mind is that I had just hired, , this animator who is really good in, , character animation character, , in rigging characters.
Kenny Wassus: 30:27 On an animation and she was just great and characters. And so I knew that going into that video is that like the goal was create, , you know, this, this video of this format for them to, you know, the cast of Rick and Morty to do this improv prompt that we can animate and post and bring it to life. , and when I just remember like listening and I was just like taking notes on specific moments throughout that little, , their improv session and like, and just had ideas that we were going to, I was going to go to the animator with and have her sort of bring to life. , and she did and it came to life and she did an amazing job and it was just, I guess, I mean, I guess that’s the closest I can get to talking like about, , what I’ve done with comedic production with posts in mind was just like working with this group of really talented comedians and voice actors created a box that I knew was going to be something that we could animate. And while I was watching it, just taking notes and really paying, you know, paying a close, paying close attention to the moments that would be best to animate and you know, bring to life. I don’t know if that makes any sense.
Matt Johnston: 31:41 Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And what about just in post? I mean, you know, there, I think there’s, there’s even little things like a, I remember the video that we did with Nick Offerman, we had him lay down on the couch and , talk about the nature of masculinity. And like his answer was basically like, I don’t know what Matt, you know, like masculinity does not mean to me necessarily what it means to, what, what you might think it means, you know, based on me being like the stereotypical masculine,
Kenny Wassus: 32:14 oh, like posts on like the publishing side, like at like editorial.
Matt Johnston: 32:20 Well, well that’s, that’s interesting too, but no, actually editing the video. So, so I actually remember when that video, the music that you chose to put behind it was, do you remember what it was? I don’t, I think it was very presidential. I believe like very like, like presidential, like, like hail to the chief with a little bit of like an inspirational tone in there. , which in a way it was sort of antithetical. I feel like most people, most people would do a nick Offerman video and they would be like, oh, how can we find like a way to like give it like a woodsy sort of vibe? Or is it just too easy? Right. It’s too like on the nose. And I, I feel like in general that’s a lot of what we’re talking about, right? Is that when you’re too on the nose with, with, with certain comedic concepts or the execution of them and the editing process, , that’s not really where funny comes from. Right? It comes from not being on the nose.
Kenny Wassus: 33:22 Yeah. You don’t want to try too hard. I think that’s very, , that’s fatal.
Matt Johnston: 33:28 So what does that mean? But what does that mean to you? Like if you can dig deeper on that. Like what, like what is trying too hard? Like what is like, like if you’re trying, if, if you, if you, if you find yourself trying too hard to be funny, what does it look like? You just sort of come to congruent with it or,
Kenny Wassus: 33:45 , I’m trying to think of a good example. I feel like it’s not hard to find on the Internet. It’s people who, you know, they’ll have some, God, I don’t know. It’s just like, you know, when you see it, you see, you know, it, when you see bad comedy, when someone has something that they wrote or their acting and this is a bad bit and there’s this, there’s sort of a magic to it and the badness of it sometimes. And there’s obviously magic to it when it just works. I think so much of the comedy on the Internet, like it doesn’t have to be highly produced. I think the more highly produced, the bigger the risk of it’s sucking. , I think so much of the best stuff on the internet is just like really weird, bizarre stuff that’s just so accidentally funny. And I, yeah, I think a lot of it is like don’t overthink it.
Kenny Wassus: 34:36 Don’t overproduce. It definitely like don’t like, if you think that if you’re, you know like say you’re working with a small business and they’re like, hey, we’re going to rate this really funny script and we’re going to shoot it this way. Like, you know, it’s risky, it’s going as you get into scripted comedy, like you should be working with people who are practiced in it. Like I think if you have people who don’t, aren’t comedy writers and you know, they’re trying to like produce an ad spot that’s funny and write the comedically. I think that’s just, that can get scary quick. I mean find people who are funny, every town’s got comedians, fine. You find your local funny person. Really just give them a platform, help them, enable them to do what they do best and help, you know, use, use their funniness and create an, you know, a box for them to work in.
Kenny Wassus: 35:23 That works with whatever your business is or whatever your ad spot is and you know, and go from there. But I guess that would be a big, that’d be a big takeaway is that like a lot of so many people on the Internet think that, you know, they’re really funny if you’re in the, you know, they can figure out how to like script something funny or do something you’re like, no. Like there are people like it’s tough. So I think if you’re doing like weird stuff in posts and editing, like looking at what other people are doing, look at like what I dunno, editors like Vic Berger do. Like you can obviously have fun with weird snap zooms and sound effects and recontextualizing moments on the Internet. But if you’re going into like scripted stuff where you’re trying to do something that is like promotey or you know, a little bit more polished, like I guess that would be like find funny people and enable them, I guess.
Matt Johnston: 36:11 Yeah. Is there anything else about, , post-production that you had in mind? Sort of like things in things in editing specifically?
Kenny Wassus: 36:20 Yeah. You know what? I’ve got a good example. , I was working with this editor on one of the vultures spot studios. It’s where we have celebrities come in and they’re interviewed about whatever show TV that they’re promoting. And we had the guys from good omens or bad omens, one of those ones. It was John Ham, , David Tennant and Michael Shane and our hosts had them do sites from I think hamlet and read the parts from like a certain scene within hamlet. And it was ended up being really great because Yeah, David Tennant, Michael Sheen were totally down and John Ham you could tell was not down and they eventually convinced them to do it. , which was I think just funny seeing how reluctant John [inaudible] was to do it. But in the edit, like you have Michael Sheen and David Tennant and they are in it. They are performing it, they’re killing it.
Kenny Wassus: 37:17 They’ve obviously done it before. And I think John Hamm was doing Ofelia and like when I went to his line, like he just like read it in the flattest way possible. And it was just like this very deadpan delivery. And the editor who was this really talented editor who had, I think he had great comedic instincts, is that he had this, like this medieval music playing during, , David Tennant and Michael Sheen’s part. There was like curing the scene and it felt like it had a great pace and cadence to it. And the minute that I went to John Ham, he just cut the music and then you have John Ham give this really dead pan delivery. And it was just so funny and it was not only, I think a part of it was funny because of just John Ham not being into it, but the, the abrupt stopped of it in the edit.
Kenny Wassus: 38:03 Just, it really just registered. And it was such a great moment in the video. I remember I was watching it with all the people we had on set because we were editing these sort of in real time and everybody loved it. Everybody laughed at it. And that was something that was a moment that wasn’t even that, you know, inherently funny. But that editing little and all it was, was just cutting the music just made it that much better. , and yeah, and I’ve, you know, I did another one with like, , I think it was a cast of, , Riverdale and had them or w we had them, , and the, this host, they were interpreting, , these really bizarre eccentric German words. , but they’re doing it, interpreting it with their faces, I guess these sort of facial reactions to these words and , and the edit I did, I did a couple of, you know, music cuts.
Kenny Wassus: 38:58 I did some snap zones. I did some, , de saturation fades that sort of just like ramped up the, , I dunno the seriousness of it. I mean, so much of that I think is music to music. I’m a real like nut for finding music that really pairs well with moments and then can contrast with it or accelerate it or, and so, yeah, I feel like music is huge. Like really learn, like picking good music, picking music that’s not cliche. And also like ducking it at the right times, putting it in the right places. , yeah, I think that you can do a lot with just cutting music, starting music and music choices. And also of course, you know, little light effects zooms in like quick ss then zoom out. And that didn’t even have to be, you know, something you want to after effects or you’re just doing it premiere like key frame that sort of like the Internet aesthetic zone, which is like this sort of slappy zoom into it. But you know, it’s for the Internet. It doesn’t have to, you know, you’re not creating cinema there. You’re just creating fun little clips.
Matt Johnston: 40:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s fascinating. Yeah. I, I think the use of music is huge there for sure. The, the, the use of music and how, again, like how you, how you’re contextualizing all of this stuff. , I mean, but I’ll, I’ll a lot of the, like the, the raw material is so important. And then, you know, with, with something like the John Ham video, you know, you had, , you had him and that just delivered it deadpan. , but you were able to sort of accelerate that moment. You were able to like give more to that moment, , based on that, you know? ,
Kenny Wassus: 40:36 yeah, I think cutting the music really amplified the f the hor and his unwillingness to like sort of play along because like you just had this really funny pairing with these two guys who were just performing it beautifully and were so into it and we’re having fun. And then I think cutting the music and really just, I mean, cause essentially like the scene was with Dave attendant, Michael Sheen and like cutting to John Hamill, it’s like whole different scene all together. So having the music drop and having him, , just sort of not play along just I’d be, I think it just, , amplified, , the, the hor that was John Ham not being down for this thing.
Matt Johnston: 41:18 Yeah. Right, right, right. And I’ll forever be jealous of you, of course, because even though I, even though we, you and I interviewed some pretty high profile people together during the couple of years that we work together, but I’m never, never interviewed my favorite doctor from doctor who, and you managed to do that after I left, so thanks for that.
Kenny Wassus: 41:38 W which one was your favorite? Was it David?
Matt Johnston: 41:41 David Tennant. Yeah. Yeah. He’s like, yeah,
Kenny Wassus: 41:43 right. Nice. And that’s rare. I feel like the fact that like our hosts, Natalie Walker, who’s just this phenomenal host and actress, , she just, I feel like that’s another challenge is getting people to do stuff, especially when you’re working with talented. And she just pitched it to them and kind of like press them a little bit and they both, they all did it. So, , and they, yeah, he was, he was really fun. It was, it was a great, great little
Matt Johnston: 42:09 great little shoots. Yeah. Right, right, right. Well, this was, this was, this was super useful. , absolutely. Thank you so much, Kenny. , I feel like we learned a lot, a lot here. I mean, because I, I, I really do feel like there’s a couple of takeaways out of this. I mean, if, if you’re a sort of advanced in the video world, there’s a lot you can take away from this, but even if you’re just getting into this stuff a little bit and you want to think about content, getting some comedy in there, I think that there were, there were, there’s a lot of through lines that we’re seeing through all of your, all of your most viral stuff that’s sort of, that’s sort of actually pass through. You know, like again, like it is something that you can sort of learn and a lot of ways you have to sort of, , and you have to get better at it, but you have to just like change the way your brain works, right? You just have to sort of change the way that you think about certain moments. , and also change what you, I think often change. What concept do you think? Like what, what, what you think is funny and what you think goes, not be funny because how many times does somebody come up to you and been like, I have a really funny idea. Wouldn’t it be funny if, and like, it’s never, it’s never funny, right? You’re like, H, yeah. Like, great idea.
Matt Johnston: 43:28 Alright. Alright. Alright. Thanks so much Kenny. I super, super appreciate you. , you coming on this. I know that people are just going to love this stuff. Thanks so much. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast this week. Super, super stoked to be talking about video production. We’ll be here with you next week. Tirelessly new topic, making you the best you can be at Youtube advertising. Thanks so much everybody. Cheers. [inaudible].
Matt Johnston: (20:11)
Yeah. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve wondered about that, about, you know, how much warming up you would actually do because sometimes, and we often worry about this with youtube, we think about this a lot with youtube. Um, people go to youtube because they want to know, want to do, want to buy something, want to learn something. And so often when they’re going to your product page, um, it’s always tough to say what kind of mood they’re in to shop. Um, obviously Youtube ads works very well for e-commerce, but, um, sometimes we will choose to do a, like a lead Gen approach to more higher ticket products, um, where we’re doing some sort of contest or something like that because, you know, is it too aggressive to take somebody right to a product page at the same time? It is a better audience than you you’d see through social media in a way, like a more intent-based audience.
Matt Johnston: (21:05)
And so I feel like with the right messaging on the landing page slash product page, um, you might be able to, to have a really high success rate. So, um, I, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve often wondered, um, you know, and also you get more opportunity to warm people up in a youtube ad than you do with a simple image on Facebook or Instagram, uh, cause you’re actually providing value in the, in the ad. So I wonder with a, I wonder with that, you know, if you’re selling a $400, $500 thousand dollars product, um, is there some version that might work a little bit better to send somebody directly to a product page? And of course at the end of the day you want to split test it, but maybe the sales letter approach would make sense.
Marco Hernandez: (21:57)
Yeah. The, the higher you go up and, and, and price point for a product, the more you need to talk to them about it. Um, it doesn’t have to be like one of those old 15 minutes scroll sales letter. You could actually wrap it up in another video. So they click on, on your youtube video, they go to a landing page where they actually see a more specific video about the technology and maybe a short version of the video. In a transcription below it. And then the offer, um, that, that type of format we worked for, for a hire, I intend to product a, something that we’ve been testing and it’s going to be very, very cool is uh, especially for higher ticket prices is the adoption in the websites of uh, augmented reality technology. Um, I believe I sent you a demo of something of this nature.
Marco Hernandez: (22:55)
And so you basically, basically you have the, the rendering of the product and you’re able to pop the camera straight on the landing page. You pop the camera of your cell phone and it brings that object into your camera stream if you want. I don’t know if it’s right, the camera feed. So then you can see live how the product would look like. So if it’s a, let’s say a three foot by five foot product or um, a couple of inches tall, you can actually position it in your live, on your, on, on your desk or in your garden, wherever the product fits. So I think those types of pools, uh, eventually will start coming up more in, into pages to make the user more familiar with it and see how it really looks alive. So the more information you give to them, I think it’s, as long as it’s well-pleased and it’s not overloading the user with unnecessary information, I think it’s always beneficial.
Matt Johnston: (23:55) That’s amazing. Yeah. I mean we are not too far from the days where we’re going to be able to leverage that inside of Youtube ads somehow, whether it’s some sort of virtual reality device that we all have on us at all times and we know that we have it. Um, or pretend well, I, cause I was just thinking mope computer, but I suppose on mobile, um, we’re probably not too far away from us being able to show augmented reality pieces in our ads. I would not be surprised at all or three 60 video, um, easily inside of our ads. Uh, and then you can really get p because that’s generally, especially as you go up up the price ladder, uh, people want a picture of themselves with it.
Matt Johnston: (24:40)
They, and they want to know what it’s like, what it feels in their hands. Um, and that, that, that’s always been the biggest detriment. Does online shopping. We all do it. We love it. We’re never going to go brick and mortar again consistently. However, at the end of the day we would like to see something before like gun to our head, right? Like we would like to see something before we buy it. It would be nice. It’s never possible anymore. Rarely possible, but it will be great. Instead we would go on like sort of money back guarantees and things like that. Uh, but this, this may actually replace that experience for us and we may be able to do that on the ad buying side and the, um, and the, and the Cro side for sure. I have you, uh, have you, um, tested any of that yet?
Marco Hernandez: (25:26)
So we’re in the process of deploying a couple of shops that will have that capability. Um, so for instance, we’re, we’re having conversations with this, uh, company in Australia that does greenhouses. So imagine just being capable of saying, okay, how is this green is going to look in my backyard? Can it fit? How would it like just having that visual aspect on it and it makes it like a little bit of like a showroom where you’re able to say, you know what they have, I like this one, this model will look great or this one doesn’t fit even though I like it. Um, so you don’t have to actually go there to the back of earth and measure it. You can just put it there. So as a consumer, as a shopper, well that’s, that’s cool. Things that you want to start seeing on, on ecommerce stores. It’s not technically something that you can benchmark, but it’s definitely gonna be something that you can, um, allow users to have a better experience and better experience always translate and happy clients. Right.
Matt Johnston: (26:27)
I actually think that it’s, so, it’s such a big feature that when it’s cracked in a way that is accessible to everyone and easy to execute, whoever’s first to crushing that is gonna win. I mean, because I do think it’s that important. I mean for, for even $50 products, people are doing extensive research on them to see if they should make even a $50 investment.
Marco Hernandez: (26:49)
There are, especially in the clothing industry, these types of technology school will skyrocket their sales. Um, the biggest hold back I have buying online are for sunglasses. That’s my, like I always have to go to the store. Even though I buy it online, I have to go to the store to try it out because it doesn’t, I don’t, I can’t see from a photograph whether that fits my face, that and shoes. Right. And just taking the example of a company like Sapos were they built an online empire on shoes by changing the model where, hey, try it. If it doesn’t fit, send it back and send it back as many times you want until it fits. If they can create in an experience on their online store where a, maybe the, the, the AI or the augmented reality is able to actually measure the size of your foot because now there’s technologies that allow you to do that with what suits you. Upload your photo and tell you how much your dimensions, so the same thing can be applied to for your feet. You can measure and say, hey, this is the right size for you. And then you see it in augmented reality on your feet. Yup. I like these boom purchase. So it’s going to evolve. And those who adopt these type of technologies will definitely have a competitive advantage over the rest.
Matt Johnston: (28:13)
Yeah, that’s amazing. One more brief aside and then we can leave that and go to a slight, a few, a few more basic things. But a, I bought a, a, I bought a car the first time. I bought a car in a while. It used car a year ago and I bought it from Carvana. I bought this car online and uh, you know, Caravan van is the company that has these, um, car vending machines in a couple of areas in the country, you know. Um, but I, I bought the car online and they’re augmented reality. Well, I, you know, I wouldn’t call it augmented reality, but like, whatever it is you would call, it was amazing. I felt fine purchasing the car based on it. And basically what it allowed me to do was not just get a three 60 view of the actual car that I was going to buy, but I could go inside of it, look all around, I could look, I could find blemishes, I could see the back seat, the front seat, the trunk, whatever I wanted.
Matt Johnston: (29:10)
Like I’m, there’s not much more that I could see in person except for actually test driving. And I’m not a car guy. I don’t really care. I mean, like they all, they all drive the same to me. So, you know, I, I, it was an easy purchase for me, but you know, if it hadn’t had that, um, that feature on the site, I wouldn’t have bought it. Now, of course, with something like Carvana with their model of like selling these cars online and that’s their thing. I mean, they kind of had to crack that very early because how else are you going to get someone to make that purchase? But, um, uh, I, I just thought that that was very cool and we’re not very far. I don’t think at all from any brand being able to do this. I think that it’s just, you have to think outside the box.
Matt Johnston: (29:52)
Any brand could do it right now if they wanted. It sounds like to me. So, um, it was just sort of a missed opportunity. So going back to the basics, so we talked about, we talked a little bit about, um, what about headlines and copy. Um, you, you mentioned a little bit about having short and to the point copy, etc. But how much selling are we doing there? I mean, I feel like a lot of, a lot of product pages I see are just largely typical, right? It’s sort of like, this is the product. It does this like basically like Amazon. Like a lot of the, a lot of e-commerce PR, uh, uh, stores are sort of basically copying Amazon. They’re just kinda like, and they’re going off the theme. Like these are like three benefits. This is what it is. These are the colors available.
Matt Johnston: (30:43)
What’s your quantity and add to cart. Uh, but at the same time, you don’t want to make it too much. You don’t want to overthink it. So what’s the sort of, um, I dunno, what do you think, what’s the, what’s the recommended headline and copy stuff there? And do you use a headline that’s not just the products that you just say, you know, like, you know, like revolution, like, like, like a, I dunno, whatever eye cream or do you actually add a headline? Like this eye cream will transform your mornings? I mean, how, like what do you think?
Marco Hernandez: (31:16)
Right. Well I think it goes back to whether you’re working on type of sales letter approach or just a standard shopping. Um, keep in mind [inaudible] a lot of the, the sales letter go from driven traffic. So if you’re taking that approach and you’re driving traffic to that, usually that is gonna work better than just the, the product title. Now it’s very rare that you find an online store that has the type of naming convention because they, they, even though we know that that would probably work better, they want to have a standardized product naming convention. So they’re not going to say, I’m amazing. I renewal cream. They’re going to say just renewal cream cause that’s the name of the product. So a lot of companies tend to keep that conventional approach. Um, but if you’re going towards the more sales letter approach, I would definitely encourage you to take the other um, approach.
Marco Hernandez: (32:14)
Now from a description standpoint, I think it’s always going to be benefit oriented and not feature oriented. People don’t buy because the, what they’re reading makes sense, but they, they buy because they’re connecting with the product. Um, they, you must always address who is this ideal for? What am I gonna feel, see taste when I try your product and what benefits am I going to get from it? If you write the copy around those aspects, it’s going to be more engaging with your audience. That just saying, oh, this measures two inches by five by 10 it wastes this much. We don’t care about those things we care about. Is it going to solve my problem or not? So a lot of the times we forget about addressing the problems. So why would I buy, um, your cell phone? Well, this is the newest technology that, uh, has the, the latest cameras that you can take the best photographs with your kids.
Marco Hernandez: (33:10)
So that type of copy would definitely engage with somebody that has parents, right? So you have know your audience and how you write your copy. Um, be concise about it. Don’t be fluffy. Fluff makes you [inaudible] distract and I’ll take action. So you have to be very direct on the benefits. Who is it for and, and how you should attack it. Now, copy needs to be written different modalities. I mean, if you want to really deep dive into understanding products you have to product sales, you have to understand, well, how do people engage with you while they engage on the visual aspects on it? Auditory, um, in a, in a kinesthetic way. Those are nearing the mystic programming. Banalities so your copy always needs to refer to them. I don’t know if Matt is a more auditory person or visual. So you have to be able to describe your product in multiple angles where when you sit here, you’re going to feel this, but it’s going to look amazing in your living room and when like the sofa is going to be the center of your party. So you’re, you’re creating multiple elements there so that they can visualize it in multiple sensorial aspects. Does that make sense?
Matt Johnston: (34:26)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does. It does make a lot of sense. Um, I, you know, I just think it’s always, it’s always you just never know what to write in, how much to write. I mean, you always just want to focus on the, the, the pluses and minuses, the costs and the benefits. Um, but at the end of the day, like you’re like, ah, I don’t know, maybe I gotta warm up a little more. Maybe I got to push on some pain points. And at the end of the day it’s specific to the product, specifically the audience. So that makes a whole lot of sense.
Marco Hernandez: (34:57)
And I think it’s, just to touch on what I think, because we, we, we always have frustrated clients that say, well, we’re always testing what’s up with that? Well, because you’re always testing, your company’s always going to be testing things. That’s a whole attention. You never have a silver bullet. And sales are seasonal. Your audiences change your product, the walls. So you’re always in this consistent testing. So whether there’s not going to be an ideal copy, it might work for six months and then it doesn’t work. But the thing is you got to always test what, how can I improve it? And you’re gonna end up in have or take two steps forward and then you might take one step back, like to tip forward one step back, et Cetera, et cetera. So it’s always that process of seeing if I can make it better or is it going to worse.
Matt Johnston: (35:47)
Cool. All right, so, so, so let’s recap here and make sure just before we wrap up to make sure we have, we give people like really actionable stuff to take a look at for all their ecommerce product pages. They’re taking a look at. So one, we want to make sure the photography is on point basically, right? Um, meaning that it isn’t distracting. Um, it looks elegant but you don’t need to overproduce it to make sure the button really stands out. But, um, you want to look at different colors for different sectors, um, and uh, try to balance those things. But at the end of the day it needs to stick out like a sore thumb, right? Um, and the copy should be shortened to the point direct and not get too flowery. It should mostly speaks to pluses and minuses and direct benefits and problems that it’s solving. And uh, basically the more expensive the product, the longer your product page is likely going to be because you might have multiple videos, a little bit more copy, et Cetera. Um, but I think you would, but I think you would say that you still on an ecommerce product base for a more expensive product, you want to really focus in on, on like very a very direct conversation of the problems it’s solving and the benefits. Right?
Marco Hernandez: (37:08)
Except if you’re Ferrari, then you say, buy now you don’t need to,
Matt Johnston: (37:14)
you know us, stop reading. Right, right.
Marco Hernandez: (37:17)
Just click buy.
Matt Johnston: (37:20)
Yeah. That’s great. Marco. I think that there’s a lot that people can take, can take away this. I know, I know that I’m going to be revisiting a lot of, I’m actually, I’m trying to, I’m like thinking right now, I need to go over to my client’s product pages right now and just see if I can just get my hands in there and fix this stuff. But I also think that one of the big, uh, the big takeaways here is like to test everything and it’s not hard to do that and it’s worth it. Um, it’s easier than ever to set up Ab tests, uh, through all of these platforms. So test stuff, you know, test stuff as, as much as possible. Um, uh, so yeah, I thank you so much. This was, this was great. This was great. I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, this is what matters are conversions, right? You’re not just traffic. We’re not just driving traffic. It’s traffic. Doesn’t matter. I can get anyone to click on stuff. It’s not about that. It’s more about, you know, who, who are you driving and are they going to convert once they get there? And I think you’ve really given us a good, a good tool box. Thanks Marco.
Marco Hernandez: (38:29)
Yeah, absolutely. If I want to leave you one last, know your numbers correctly. Um, a lot of the reporting tools actually give you total traffic. Um, what I consider in mind metrics is, um, page visits. What happens is if, especially if you’re a large brand that you have a lot of organic traffic, um, you’re gonna get visitors all the time and you’re going to be able to, I personally believe that we’re going to, traffic shouldn’t convert the same rate than paid traffic. One is on the other is more curious. So one of your driving traffic straight to the product page. So always make sure that when you’re benchmarking and seeing your conversion rate for your page, if it’s 3%, and it’s actually a page views or product page views versus a, um, instead of just website total website views, because that’s going to make a big difference on comments. People are what seeing a specific product and clicking through that product because not all products convert at the same rate at year.
Matt Johnston: (39:32)
Yeah. That’s very interesting. That’s very interesting. Yeah, for sure. All right, everybody will, thanks so much for, uh, for joining me for this, uh, Cro sesh. Marco, appreciate you being here. Uh, we’ll be here again next week, every Friday. Like always. That’s what we do now. Thanks again for being here and, uh, have an amazing rest of your day where and whenever you are
Marco Hernandez: (40:05)