The act of advertising and marketing, at the end of the day, is the act of persuading human beings to take specific actions. And if you don’t understand the particular psychological space your potential customers are in when they encounter you, you’re leaving money on the table.
This week I spoke to Tom Breeze, who many consider the top mind in the world in YouTube advertising. Tom studied psychology at a high level for years before transitioning to marketing, and in this episode we dug deep into the underlying drivers behind the actions people take on YouTube. We also talked a lot about what folks are doing in YouTube in the first place, and how that can direct our strategy. It’s an incredibly insightful look inside the psyche of why people take any action they take on YouTube, and how to craft your campaigns accordingly.
om Breeze is founder and CEO of Viewability, a company specializing in YouTube Advertising, boasting an impressive client list of international personal and corporate brands. With a “Pay For Results” financial model, Viewability oversees over $100k/day in ad spend. Tom is also a speaker, author and consultant, teaching businesses around the world how to advertise successfully on YouTube.
Matt Johnston:00:14 Hey everybody, thank you so much for being here today with me. Another episode of the Youtube Marketing Accelerator podcast. Got a great one here today for you. I hope you’re having a great day.
Matt Johnston: 00:27 Today we have Tom Breeze in here with us in the studio and by studio, I mean I’m sitting on my porch and he’s sitting in the United Kingdom, thousands and thousands and thousands of miles away. So in case everybody doesn’t know, Tom, Tom Literally wrote the book on Youtube ads, which is called viewability, right? Which is the same name as your agency. A Tom. Tom Is if, if he’ll allow me to say. So in my, in my mind, the foremost Youtube ads expert on the planet, he he oversees an agency that does a hundred k a day and ad spend, speaker, author and consultant. And he’s, he’s worked with pretty much everybody on the planet when it comes to youtube ads. And if there is a digital marketing conference near you and there’s a speaker on Youtube ads, chances are Tom will be that speaker as I notice. So Tom, I’m so, I’m so grateful that you’ve, that you’ve come to join me here today. And I’ll also say Tom is also my mentor and has, has done a lot for me in my business, also one of the most generous human beings on planet earth. So Tom, thank you for, for taking the time today. That is 100% okay with me, Matt. That was a lovely intro. I don’t think I’ve had interviews like that before, so much appreciated buddy.
Matt Johnston: 01:48 You’re welcome. You’re welcome. Okay. So Tom and I were talking about before, before the show we were saying, okay, well what are we going to talk about here and what, what we thought might be really interesting would be to talk about what people are doing on youtube in the first place. Because very often it’s the question that we get all the time. Those of us that run youtube ads for a living, we often get this question, does my offer work on Youtube? Does my product or service way? Is it a fit for youtube at all? And sometimes there are tactical things that we can look at. Are there a lot of youtube videos about your topic? Or there are a lot of keywords, all of these little research oriented nitty gritty things, but at the end of the day, it really comes down to what the human behavior aspect is.
Matt Johnston: 02:30 What’s the psychology of people on Youtube versus other platforms? I thought that would be fascinating. Tom is one of the best that I’ve ever seen at articulating the psychology of someone on Youtube. And obviously if you get that, you can nail your whole campaign because you have a real sense of what people are searching for, what they’re doing and what kind of ad they want to watch. So Tom, if you could give us a shout, a little bit of light on this. What is the mindset of someone that is on Youtube?
Tom Breeze:03:00 So really good question and I’m glad That we get to talk about this and it’s not an easy one to talk about. So when you say that I can articulate it very well, I’m not 100% sure that’s as accurate as I want it to be. But well I just give some background. Like I studied psychology for like five years, did university and then did my master’s. Right. Being like a, a foundation to everything I do when it comes to advertising and considering I spend all my time running youtube ads. I feel like I, I’m always analyzing what works, but it’s, it’s less regular. The, I’ll go back to the fundamental foundation I suppose as to what Youtube is actually all about and why people behave in certain ways on youtube, which is different to other platforms. And I think this is really helpful hopefully for other people because if people that are advertising on some platforms be at someone like Facebook, I can tell you the number of times that clients come to us and say, Hey, I’m doing this thing on Facebook.
Tom Breeze: 03:53 Can we just do the same thing on youtube and depends on the relationship I have with the prospects and the size of the company. But often it’s the case of like, well look, that would be great for Facebook. I’m happy to test it, but I think we should look at this as a brand new platform because the audience psychology is very, very different and we need to keep that in mind. So a good way to think about this as almost to compare platforms. So if you look at someone like Facebook, we tend to go to Facebook because we want to be distracted or connects with our community in some way or really nothing better to do. So a lot of times I’ll pick up my phone when I’m in a queue and I’m about to buy something or I’m waiting for the kids at school or whatever it might be.
Tom Breeze:04:38 I’ll be using Facebook in that capacity. And yeah, sometimes I’ll feed back into there because I might get a message from somebody or might be get a notification or something, but it’s that kind of, it’s a constant platform. You’re going in and out of and you might spend a short amount of time on that platform, but you’ll be going back there over and over and over during the day. Usually the, the, the way we use youtube is very, very different. But the reason why we go there in the first place is very different as well. So the average session duration on youtube is anywhere between 40 to 60 minutes, which is a long, long, long, long time. And it’s because people, people go into youtube when they’ve got a bit more time and it’s almost the, it carved out a piece of time to say, and it didn’t necessarily, I’ve sat down and said, right, this is youtube time, but it’s more like in their minds when you go to youtube, you’re thinking to yourself, well, okay, I’m going to go to youtube and I’ve got a bit of free time available to myself.
Tom Breeze: 05:32 We don’t flick there and flicked back very easily. Once we’re there, we tend to stay there. And that’s partly because the platform is so sticky, but also because we all like going there with more info tents. So some people are going there because they want to find out how to do something or want to go and buy something. And so they’re doing their comparisons between different products, all them up but just want to learn more about the topic. But a lot of people going there because he wants to be inspired too. But this is the thing with youtube, people tend to be using this platform because going there to explore our interests and our passions at a deeper level and normally if we take it outside of work because no one really loves going into Youtube for work related reasons. Some bit, sometimes we do because we want to do the how to tutorials with a piece of software or something.
Tom Breeze:06:19 But that’s not normally what we end up on Youtube. We normally end up on youtube because we are being inspired by something or have that passion as normally not work related or at least it is exploring something new. And that’s the big part of the psychology of Youtube. And if you extrapolate this out to the customers that you tend to want to advertise to, if you have a product or service, people are there to explore new things and normally new things about themselves that will be very closely connected to their status. Now this is kind of a fundamental part of all marketing and the psychology and and why we do anything really. But if we look at status as a, as a driving force for what’s happening in anything to do with any product selling or kind of any any promotional might be doing, most people thinking about if they buy this product, does it help them become somebody new?
Tom Breeze: 07:20 Does it help them become like someone that can shift their identity? And that also allows them to have a new status in their environments. Now this goes down to like the smallest decisions all the way up to the biggest decisions as well. The status and how we’ll look other people around us is such a huge driving force [inaudible] be the most attractive human trait in the world. But it’s the trait that we all live by. And how we look to other people is underestimated by so many people when it is the number one thing that’s driving all marketing and advertising and why we bet a purchase. So you tend to find that people that want to stay to shift, those people do go to youtube, spend a lot of time on there and they’re looking up things like a few areas that people do this a lot in other things like how to start a business.
Tom Breeze: 08:10 They’re not necessarily looking to start a business to get freedom in their lives or to make a lot of money that is that is something they are doing, but a big driving forces that they want to start a business because then in [inaudible] in their community or their social group that they’re kind of family, friends, colleagues, whoever it might be, they want to be perceived as a business owner for some reason. They want to be perceived as that person and have that Gravitas or whatever that means to them. And it’s the same when we do anything. When we send our kids to a certain school, we’re thinking about how other people perceive that about us when we buy our cars, when we buy a house. Then even down to the smallest decisions as well. Like you can say, right, if I buy this computer or if I buy this chair at work or anything, it’s like it’s all a symbol that’s going to connect to our status and how we’re being perceived by other people around us.
Tom Breeze: 09:05 And that if you are aware of that, it does make it very different to how you think about your advertising. Because now, yes, you might have a product or a service that naturally lends itself to that message anyway. So you might have like, here’s how to start a business or here’s how to become a trader because people want to be perceived as a trader or as a business owner. But it, but it’s you allowing people to have this [inaudible] your product or service is a new opportunity for people. Then that is kind of what they’re looking for. They’re looking for this brand new status within their community. And if your product doesn’t have that and maybe your product is more about like, here’s how you become a better business owner, or here’s a piece of software or product management tool that helps you become a better business owner or whatever it might be and it doesn’t necessarily lend itself to a brand new opportunity, then it’s a case of making sure that the messaging positions your products. So it does feel like a brand new opportunity to those people. So it feels like by buying this by buying those products, it’s going to improve me to the point in which people will perceive me in a new level of status. And if you know that going in, it makes all of your creative a lot stronger and makes everything work a lot better on youtube because that is a platform people are looking to make that identity shift and that status change within their social environments.
Speaker 3: 10:24 That’s fascinating. I never really thought about that for a really headed, articulated so. So you would really say, and maybe this is specific to youtube, maybe it’s not that it’s really much more about status and how other people will perceive you based on your passions or maybe your passions are actually a reflection of that rather than something more internal.
Tom Breeze: 10:47 I think. I think it’s very internally. I think that you look a, I mean I think, I think it’s a foundational thing for all advertising and marketing as any way. Like take it as like like it runs through everything. It’s just when people go into youtube as a platform, I mean it just happens on Facebook as well, don’t get me wrong. But when it happens on youtube, it’s almost like that’s being activated by the fact that you’ve gone to youtube in the first place. [inaudible] Go into youtube thinking, oh, okay, this is, they’ve got a bit of downtime and the amount will be a conscious thing that people are doing. It’s not like we’re going to youtube and thinking, okay, now I’m going to improve myself. So I look great in front of other people. It’s not like we have that context going there. Like one day my parents will be happy about my choices in life or anything like that.
Tom Breeze: 11:32 Or one day, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And healthy better than all my friends. Yeah, exactly. It’s not that we’re typing that in, but it is the unconscious driver that has happened within, within all of us. It’s an evolution thing as well, right? If you look at all animals or these all social animals, well, social animals are looking to gain that status, whether it be through physical kind of domination or whether it be through kind of connecting with people and having that kind of hierarchy, et cetera. So it is a kind of an unconscious drive within all of us to be like, okay, I am, I am a prettier, I am wealthier. I have more power than these other people around us because it establishes you in that hierarchy. And so it is kind of this, it’s a drug with an all of us.
Tom Breeze: 12:22 It’s just that when you go to youtube, it’s closer to the conscious. So it’s not like with Facebook you just go in there mainly because you’re kind of touching base and you’re kind of just seeing the news and seeing what’s happening. Whereas with youtube it’s more of a conscious decision to go to that platform to say, okay, cool, I’m, I’m now here, I’m going to start searching for something that’s part of my passion and my interest. And that passionate interest is normally because it’s connected very closely with your identity and your identity is very closely related to your status within a group.
Speaker 3: 12:53 Would you say then? I mean, so, so we often have sort of, you know, there’s really two, two different types of visits, right? B to C and B to B very often. I mean there’s more, but generally and, and a lot of people might say that that B2B doesn’t work as well. What are your thoughts on that based on psychology and the type of people that are coming to youtube?
Tom Breeze: 13:14 Yeah, so this is a, this is a pretty good distinction actually. So when you look at like BTC, your dealing with somebody who is looking for themselves, they look at, they’re going on youtube, they’re searching, they’re watching videos based on their own interests and passions. And that’s typically why we’re going to youtube is it tends to be much more of a myself orientated kind of search on youtube. We normally do it outside of working hours. We’re not going there for business reasons. Unless maybe you’re a business owner, it’s still then it’s not necessarily the place you want to hang out too much. You might start watching interviews of like top experts out there, but even if you look at those videos out there, you’ll be surprised. Like, I don’t know, you can go and Google the top CEOs of various companies, say interviews with this person and you’ll see the interviews which are kind of complete gold dust, have like 300 views and you think it’s criminal or the fact that like these amazing videos are out there that no one’s watching.
Tom Breeze: 14:08 But that’s just how we are. And then you see this other unboxing videos of Disney products and it’s got millions of views. It’s like that’s shows a lot about human behavior, right? And what we do in our own time. But if you look at like PTC versus B2B, as a consumer, we’re looking to say, right, what’s in it for me? What’s, how is it going to benefit my life in particular when it’s more of a B2B promotion, it can still work, but it’s much harder on the platform of youtube to target the right [inaudible] doing that. Cause it’s much more research based products. And so if you’re looking to get in front of certain types of people, like business owners or people in the business that can make decisions to be, make a purchase, that’s a lot harder to do with the actual platform.
Tom Breeze: 14:49 You’re better off than some places like or other platforms. If it’s like B2B, which is a small business, you might say Facebook is great for that because you can target them based on the fact that that interest is showing them that they’re a business owner, for example. You can target those types of people a lot more easily. So there’s platforms that lend themselves with, with the targeting type, but still that status and identity is playing a big role in different ways would be deceived as, as B2B. So B to c, it would be my very much a case of how as an individual can you improve your status in your social settings? And it’s like, how do you look good? How do you, but that’s still the same thing that’s happening in B2B. It’s just a different environment. So instead of your friends is now, how will this make me look great in front of my boss, in front of my colleagues?
Tom Breeze: 15:33 How will I, how I get Cra? But if there’s hell, make me look really cool. Whatever it might be. Like they want to get that recognition and that status by making that decision to buy that product for the company. Whatever it might be. I know I do this myself. I’m going to analyze myself and it’s horrible to do it sometimes, but I’ll do things not for the benefit of the company, but for the benefit of pleasing certain employees or pleasing certain divisions within the company to make me look good to them, to build a better relationship. And that’s not necessarily the best thing in the world to be doing. I’m fully aware of it, but I’m just, I’m just so self aware of my own actions. Having studied psychology for so long, I can analyze myself and it’s not always a pretty picture, but that’s the same with everybody, right? But we all make these decisions like this. And the, the fact is is like we all make decisions based on how we’re going to look in front of other people. And once we’re aware of that and accept it and know that that’s the norm, then we can start to apply that with all creative and everything else.
Speaker 3: 16:38 That’s fascinating. So, so let’s say that we are able to target the right audience on Youtube and we’ve got that sorted. You’ve got to meet them with the right creative. Right. I, I often say youtube is such an amazing opportunity because you have the search of, you have the intent based, a psychology of Google that’s going on and Google search classically. And then you also have all the best parts of Facebook because you get to go to them with your message and sort of sell them on it at the same time. But the great thing is when you can marry that intent with sort of the perfect puzzle piece of the creative that speaks to them exactly where they are. You know, they’re, they’re searching for something, they click on a youtube video because they want to learn something, do something, buy something, whatever. And then all of a sudden you pop up with your ad and it could not be more perfect. Right? So how do you be perfect in that moment?
Tom Breeze: 17:34 Okay. So what I would say is like, so we’re looking at piece of software with a, with the prospect of the day. And I was looking at the prosper the, the software and the software is designed to help people with their marketing. And it’s a CRM and it, and it was a very, very effective piece of Sa SAS. And there were saying, do you think this a work on youtube? And I was like, do you know what? It will work but not have that much scale. And it’d be quite a difficult thing to promote because what they’re doing, they’re looking to go after their business owners and, and put that product in front of them and say, hey look, this is going to help your CRM and your email marketing becomes so much better. And that was kind of awkward. Whilst that makes sense for youtube, it wouldn’t be the most interesting thing for people to take on board.
Tom Breeze: 18:17 So the advice I would give in this scenario is to say, right, take the same software, but now look at your customer base. And you probably realized that 50% of those customers may be business owners that are looking to do this for their own business. But then I bet you there’d be half those people that are looking to use that and apply that service and find their own clients to do, to use do SAS or your software with the CRA clients. So they’re kind of almost looking to use that software as a new opportunity for people. And that’s where youtube can really come into its own and really scale this, this opportunity to say put this like change up this offering all the same product to make sure you can and position it as a new opportunity for people who are looking to change their status to say, oh, I could do this and run my own business.
Tom Breeze: 19:04 Okay, that sounds really, really cool. I want to do it now. And that’s like a much, much bigger pool on youtube. And so keeping that in mind before you get to the creative as a is really advantageous. So you can, you either have a product that’s lends itself to the status already. All you might need to just shift the the opportunity and the way you position your products lightly to make sure it attaches itself to that status. But once you’ve got that, then the creative piece becomes a lot easier. And we tend to use a formula called advocates, which allows us to sell products and services really effectively on youtube. So advocate is actually an acronym. So every, obviously every letter means something and it starts with the a of educate and that is the aim of the viewer. Now we normally kind of go with the presenting aim.
Tom Breeze: 19:52 So it might be something like how to start a business. Like if someone types in how to start a business or how to become a trader or something along those lines, it’s like tackle that to begin with. Like say, Hey, if you’re looking to become a trader and your and your kind of, that’s kind of like the first thing you had mentioned as it starts with a video, then you want to quickly move into the d of agitate, which the difficulty normally people are searching because they’ve got some pain point around it or they’re struggling with something. And so you might say to them if it’s consistency with your trades or if there’s if you’re not generating them profits or you haven’t found, you can understand the patterns and the charts so you haven’t got a system that you can use right now.
Tom Breeze: 20:31 And it’s holding you back. That’s kind of what you started discussing in the video. So you just talk about the aim of the viewer and then you started talking about the difficulty and if you can be unique there so the viewer feels like, Oh wow, you actually really get a, that’s really advantageous. So you want to kind describe the problem in the way that they would describe it to themselves, but also sometimes uncover things for them that like, yeah, actually hang on a second. That’s exactly what it’s like. That’s exactly the problems I’m having. You’re starting to build a real connection with people based on the fact that you know them. And then you’d move into the, you have advocates, which is the understanding. So it’s one thing to mention the difficulties, but now what you need to make sure is that you connect with them emotionally to say, look, we understand what it’s like.
Tom Breeze: 21:16 Either your business where you have worked two clients and they’ve had the exact same problem before. Or maybe you’ve, if you’re a personal brand for example, and you’ve had that problem yourself and as part of your stories for your business, then maybe kind of like just at least showcase the fact that you’ve, you’ve had that problem and you’d be in the same place and you and you know emotionally what that feels like. And if you can describe those emotions, then you’re gonna really connect with people. Cause they’re like, ah, yeah, not only do you understand my problems, but you’ve been there too. Or You really understand what, what struggles internally I’m having. I get it. And if you can start to combine this with your status as well, you have to do it subtly, but just a nod in the right direction to say, because you may have a vision in your mind of being this person, but you’re nowhere near there just yet.
Tom Breeze: 22:01 Something along those lines. It’s gonna make people feel like there’s as a gap between the person they want to be and how they want to be perceived by others and where they’re at right now. And that’s the biggest kind of a draw to a lot of people. If someone wants to become a trader or let’s say a business owner or a kitesurf or whatever it is they want to become and they want this, suppose they want to be perceived to that community as that person. If you’re showing them that they’re not that person yet, that’s a huge pain to them. Cause I like, yeah, I know deep down no one thinks I am a good business owner. I am a good trade, I am a good kite surfer. My biggest passion in life, everyone laughs at the fact that they don’t believe on that person.
Tom Breeze: 22:40 If you can subtly pull on that, it’s such a driving motivational force that people, that they’ll do a lot of to kind of change that status they have. So that’s kind of like that understanding piece. Then once you’ve kind of been through the first three letters, the Adu of the the kind of aim difficulty and understanding, then you want to move into the c, which is a credibility of yourself and your business. So if you, let’s say for example, you are running a business which you’ve been doing for a long time, you’ve helped hundreds of thousands of people perhaps pull on that. Let people know how, how great you are. If you’ve got a story behind why you became a business in the first place and or if your products has had scientists work on it for the last five years. Talk a little bit about that, how you came to be, why this products exist in the first place or why your service exists and all the credentials you have around that.
Tom Breeze: 23:33 If you’ve won awards spoken on stage, written a book, anything like that, pull on it. It doesn’t have to be long, just like two or three sentences. Sure. To let people know that the real deal and your legitimate position yourself well and then say that you have an action plan which is the a of educates. Now it’s when people are following you or want to follow you. They want to have you wish their kind of their guide as such as a leader as such to say, ah, you can help you become this person. You can help me attain this status. Then we want to do is show them that it’s actually quite an easy roadmap. They want to have like a three step plan for example, that people can buy into because people want to be nervous and worried and skeptical and if it feels easier and it feels like, ah, okay cool.
Tom Breeze: 24:17 It’s just three steps people are buying into that. So one way you can go about that is to show them like your three step plan or show how other people are taking three steps to get where they want to be. And yeah, if you, if you can break it into three steps, that just makes it a lot, lot easier for people to buy into. And you’ve probably seen this before, like if you’ve been, oh, I can give an example. If you ever went like white water rafting for example, you never done it in your life before and you’re kind of feeling nervous but excited about getting down the river and you know, there’s going to be some challenges ahead. Then what you don’t want someone to do is say, alright, all you need to do is remember these 17 things and when to be good.
Tom Breeze: 24:56 That’s like, that’s way too much for me to do. That’s like cognitive overload. Whereas if I said to you, okay, there’s just three things that we to focus on as we’re going down the river together. And these are make sure you’re wearing a helmet. Okay. Not Number one, that’s easy. That’s done in your life fest for example. The second thing is I want you to be able to speak to your, your your rest of your crew. So, okay, you can speak great. That’s fine. So you’re almost like making sure it feels like a bit like easy to do and then you might give them one technical thing to say, okay, now will you hold your or you’ve not made sure you hold it in this way. And so you kind of like, cause it’s of you much more power behind it. And also it allows you to kind of steer the boat in the right way.
Tom Breeze: 25:32 So can you do that? Our core, I teach you that stuff. All right. Now you’re ready to become part of the team and that will make it well for like, okay cool, I can do this. Yes. And if they build a credibility in the right way, someone who’s helped thousands of people down it road before, it’s like, okay, you want my leader and I do everything you say from here on in, you’ve got my full backing and not going to change the rules on you or anything like that. I’m ready to go. So you’re going to build the action plan with people. And you may, as I said like them when I was going through the, or holding the all in the right way, you might want to teach people one aspect of it to say, okay, look, hold the orange specific way like this because it’s going to give you that power behind.
Tom Breeze: 26:06 And that’s what’s really, and it’s only from just an okay, a member of the crew to someone who’s excellent. And so you kind of like teach them something around that. And at the end of it, then you give them that exit point, which is where you’re kind of, you’ve given them some sort of irresistible offer to say, here’s how you can start your journey to becoming that status, to achieving that goal. Whatever it might be. And you’re gonna put some sort of call to action in front of them. So the often needs to be really firm grew up with that. So the house become a pro trader for example, is always going to be an interesting [inaudible] for people to take. But little, as long as you make it seem easy and I’m easy to get hold of as well, it’s gonna always be a very, very attractive offer for people. So that is the educator’s aim, difficulty understanding credibility, the action plan, then the teaching section as well as the exit. And if you got all those pieces together and lay it with this status as well as if you layer with any case studies or success stories you might have, you’re going to find you have a really, really good foundation as to a very, very powerful ad that’s around youtube.
Speaker 3: 27:13 So when it comes to status and you say if you’re able to overlay that, Aye. Aye. I mean, I’m just fascinated by this, by this, by the psychological status point, because I think a lot of us in marketing, we end up, we always talk about pain points, but in the way those almost seem like the surface layer and we’re not actually getting to the lower layer. How would you go about, and I don’t know if you have any examples about directly tackling this status as the pain point in a way that actually isn’t very direct because I, I would assume that, you know, when, when you’re actually trying to get to this status issue or, or bring it out in people you’re not actually saying something like you know, for example, we’re about to start working with a surfing client who has a course about how to be an awesome surfer, right? He’s a super pro, right? So we might, and you know, I think this is a great fit for youtube, but we’re not going to say at the beginning do you want to serve as good as your friends? All right, so it’s not like, so, so you know like how, like how, how can we indirectly tackle this?
Tom Breeze: 28:24 Yeah. So it wouldn’t be one of the stuff as good as your friends, it’d be what surf better than your friends. That’s kind of like right, right, right. They could have psychology behind it, but yeah, you can’t go with that presenting problem like that. But let’s say for example, you have this probe presenting, then what I’ll be doing before I start thinking about like what offer do we have to sell here? Even though I might have one already, I’ll be thinking, if I want this to really work and scale on youtube, I’ve got to make sure this offer connects with people’s identity in their status, where they think they can, they want to be. And the chances are the people that are going to be interested in this are probably not the newbie surfers. I wouldn’t of thought it’s probably people that are like got a surfboard already and now thinking, well, it depends on what audience we’re going for.
Tom Breeze: 29:04 But if it’s like the actual kind of verbal good surface now and they’re kind of like, they’ve invested a lot into the sport, they’ve got kind of, most of boards may be those people, if you really think about those people and then you get, if you get to have conversations with them and they’re very honest with you, the chances are they’re going to tell you that they want to be a better surfer than their friends. And they probably want to make sure that like there’s a lot of territorial wars when it comes to surfing. So if you go out on the water and it’s not your patch, then you can almost like have this kind of almost fights in the waves versus that kind of the local surface such as like, it’s very territorial from what I understand. I’m not surfer by any stretch, but when it’s like that you might think, right, how do I become a better self?
Tom Breeze: 29:49 And those guys out there, well, how do I prove it to myself as well? The people, how, when, when will I call myself actual pro and be proud to say it. And, and maybe whoever they hold in their minds, they kind of like, how do I become as Buddha, as the people I hold in my mind is like coc, good surface. Like how do I get into that group of people? Because when I’m like that, then that’s the perfect place for me to be. So when you’re thinking about that, you’re saying, you might say rev is a pro surfer who they really look up to. They might say, Hey, look, just to let you know that you can learn all this stuff. There’s one thing that I learned when I was 23 that changed my life when it comes to surfing. And once I learned this one thing, it made everything so different.
Tom Breeze:30:29 It made me kind of win all these awards, all this other stuff. But it was the one technique that helped me shift from a good surfer to an unbelievable surfer from when all these awards and things. So that’s who I want to share with you today. So you kind of, you’re saying, here’s how I did it. I mean, it was one technique that I wanted to share with you that unlocked everything. Do you wanna know what that is? It’s like, ah, yeah. Because that technique doesn’t unlock how to become a better surfer, which it does. It unlocks how to become recognized by everybody around me as an amazing, as an amazing surfer. So it’s that recognition aspect that’s pretty important there with that product.
Speaker 3: 31:04 That’s amazing. That makes a lot of sense. So really, you’re always following, so you’re, you’re sort of, you’re following these people into battle and they’ve been through this before and they’ve risen to the top. You can too. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Tom Breeze: 31:19 Yeah. And you may even, you may even pull on, let’s say for example, they said there was a prose surfer that made it, made it when they was slightly older. Let’s say for example, they became a pro surfer at the age of 32, for example. They may say, Oh, when I was 28, I learned this technique that instantly changed my surfing. And I went from an average surface and amazing surfer and within four years I become the best in the world. For example, I wish I’d learned this technique sooner. Then it makes people feel like all the 23 year olds, 20 year olds, like, well now I’ve got to get it, cause I might have a headstart on that person. They are better served than they ever became. And so it’s almost like with time on my hands and I get and I get an advantage on the best person in the world. Okay, cool. I want to do that. That’s like, that’s like a big opportunity to become the most recognized surfer in their space.
Speaker 3: 32:07 So the bottom line is if you want to get into marketing, stop doing what you’re normally doing, go get a degree in psychology
Tom Breeze: 32:15 And then definitely helps. Yeah.
Speaker 3: 32:20 Yeah. I have very few conversations that dig this deep into what drives us as human beings. But at the end of the day, those will be the reasons that we’ll do the surface level things like click and watch things. Right. It’s fascinating to me.
Tom Breeze: 32:35 And it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a kind of like, it’s that foundation to everything. It’s like if people know they can attach, they’re going to get recognized for being amazing. And it’s gonna change the way that they see themselves and also how other people see them. But more importantly, how other people see them is a big, big draw.
Speaker 3: 32:50 That’s amazing. So, so do you need, do you need always to, to make this work a person in front of a camera delivering this and, and, and making that empathy play directly person to person? Because I can see how some businesses going into this may somehow feel like they’re not 100% aligned with, you know, their, basically their offer, their company, whatever it is, doesn’t feel aligned with putting a, making a personal brand B. Do you know what I’m trying to say here? No, I get it. Yeah. It’s almost like a personal brand. And so sometimes it’s,
Tom Breeze: 33:32 Yeah. So how do you bring that across? I think that’s going to come down. So a lot of the creativity of the brand and everything, but it’s, remember you’re positioning the users status here. You’re not saying like the, the company that or the products that people are going to buy into is purely just the vehicle for the viewer to achieve the status that they want. So they’re going to be looking at any products or services like does this help me get the status I want at an unconscious level? And they won’t mind too much if it’s done by personal or brand or whatever it might be. Like it doesn’t make a difference. Like you can look at someone like GoPro. I think there’s really, really well where it’s like they sold the idea of you becoming the hero and if you buy GoPro Camera, then you’re going to upload the footage to your Facebook page and show everybody how cool you are because it’s showing people your status.
Tom Breeze: 34:22 Like, Hey, you probably didn’t know this about me. I’m an amazing surfer or skydiver or I do this on a weekends. I’m fun. I like that’s what it’s trying to tell everybody where they go pro camera. And so it doesn’t matter if it’s led with the, with the personality, it’s just, it’s case of understanding how you position that product in the first place. Some people feel like, ah, this is going to be the vehicle to me achieving my status. Now if you get deep on that, it gets really weird because you can say, right, well people buy these products and don’t do anything with them. A lot of the time that they will buy, I do all the time as well. I buy programs and products and don’t actually do much with them. I might just watch like one video of like 50 videos I should be watching.
Tom Breeze: 34:59 And that’s partly because the purchases directly related to the identity and the status. Like people like me, well people like the people I want to be do things like this. And so I ended up doing that behavior of buying, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m going to commit to it. Which is interesting. And that’s another part of the status equation that we have to talk about another day. Which is kind of like the purchases, sometimes the most important factor in their status build as opposed to actually doing the work itself. Like people are less, much, much less interested in becoming a successful business owner than just becoming a business owner. As soon as I own a business that can tell their friends they’re not what to tell them. If they didn’t want a mall, they just gonna open that business up. So to see them as like [inaudible] oh cool, these guys are business phone now.
Tom Breeze: 35:44 Yes they will need to actually do some work of course. But the, the big status play and the state, the shift happened at the point of that decision to do it and are the buy it or start a business or buy a product is like, that’s the actual kick of dopamine that people are looking for. Like, oh, on this person now because I just bought this product. But it doesn’t mean that you’ve actually consumed it and used it at all, but it’s just that it’s that status kick that people are getting. But that’s a, that’s another thing altogether.
Speaker 3: 36:12 Right. So largely, I mean really, I mean my, my favorite word on the planet that I constantly talk about all the time is empathy and empathy is really what’s driving all of this in a way. Or at least you’re showing empathy and getting empathy in the door. It’s just easier when you have a person to person connection to show that sort of emotional identification of where you are and where you could be than it is with a creative that feels more like say a TV commercial, which we see a lot of on youtube because people are just slamming stuff out there and not without a strategy. But, but you can do it if you’re a little more creative like GoPro. That’s sort of what you’re saying.
Tom Breeze: 36:49 I think that like it depends on your background. I mean, I think that if I, if I’ve worked a lot of personal brands, I’m going to find it a lot easier to do it with personal brands. And I think it probably would be because you can get them to say whatever you want as opposed to like, it’s not as easy as thinking like a product and connecting that with status very easily. But it’s definitely do a board, you said to have a good old think about how you’re going to bring that to the market and how are you going to connect that with stages? But it’s done a lot of time and it’s basically just being very conscious of that’s what’s happening and then use that, but being clever about it. So you don’t have to be super upfront with the fact that hey, by buying this product, you’re going to look great in front of your friends. It’s more a case of saying, we know that’s what you’re actually looking for, but when I have to phrase it in a different way, that is more palatable as they actually take that on board. And, and to that this is gonna look great, but they’re not buying it for that sole reason, that it’s a bit too crass, I think, for the purchase.
Speaker 3:37:43 Well, yeah, that, that’s, that’s so interesting. It just, it just involves a little bit more, a little bit more creativity. Yeah, that makes sense. Tom, thank you so much for, for, for being here. I, I don’t know that I’ve ever heard the psychology of this articulated in quite this way and I know 100% even though you and I have talked for hours and hours and hours during the past year, that this will definitely change every youtube ad that I make in the future because I certainly hadn’t thought about status in this way before. And I think that the psychology of that is amazing. Can you tell folks a little bit more about where to find your stuff? For example, your course, you know, which I, which I which I myself bought and it’s fantastic or anywhere else where they can find you.
Tom Breeze: 38:29 Yeah. So the best places to go is either to go to viewability, which is v I W A, B, I, l I t y. Dot code at UK and the agency and some of our training products are there. Okay. And then there’s also me, Tom Breeze that you can follow. And that sort of stuff as well. So yeah, I think if anyone’s heard this podcast and found it useful, I’d love them to reach out in some way. Maybe Messenger on Facebook for example, and just say, Hey, listened and let’s continue the conversation. Cause I love this topic and I love kind of allowing people to shed light on it cause it’s not like it’s the finished article from my standpoint. Like, I don’t think human psychology goes to this shallow. I think it goes a lot deeper that I’m always learning and discovering new things. So yeah, it’s a, it’s a really interesting conversation and a, yeah, if anyone wants to reach out, it’s Tom Breeze or viewability.co. Dot. UK.
Speaker 3: 39:20 So fascinating. This podcast went in a different direction than I thought and I love it when that happens because it was very, very mind expanding. Thank you so much, Tom. I really appreciate you being here and thanks everybody for for joining me today. Have an amazing day
Speaker 5: 39:35 The rest of your day. Cheers, man. [inaudible] [inaudible].