How to Optimize Your Product Pages for Maximum Leads and Sales

It’s one thing to drive traffic to your site, and another thing to get them to actually convert into sales for your e-commerce story. This episode of the YouTube Marketing Accelerator will show you exactly how to optimize your site and product pages for conversions so you are getting as many sales as you can from the traffic you drive through YouTube or anywhere else.

We spoke with Marco Hernandez of Kaizen Social and Hoopla to share with us exactly how to optimize your site correctly for sales.

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Transcript

Introduction: (00:01)
You’re listening to the youtube advertising accelerator podcast, helping businesses and marketers all over the globe dominate the Internet. Second largest search engine. Here’s your host Matt Johnston.

Matt Johnston: (00:16)
We’re talking about conversion rate optimization today. And I’m super excited about it because this is something that, uh, as someone who owns an online advertising agency guide social, it’s just frustrating. I mean, when you’re, when you’re doing ad buying, and of course we focus on youtube ad buying and a, you can drive all the qualified traffic in the world to a site, but at the end of the day, if that site isn’t converting, there’s not really much that you can do about it, right? And if you’re in a situation where you’re an agency that has clients, you are, uh, you’re probably going to get some angry clients and then you’re going to say, Hey, well what do you know? Like your website isn’t converting, I’m driving traffic. And then there’s always that, that tension that ends up happening there. So if we could all just get on the same page about what actually does convert on a site or not, I think that would be great.

Matt Johnston: (01:11)
And I think it’s one of those things that a lot of a, a lot of online stores don’t think as much about. It’s something that US advertisers do think about a lot, but we often don’t have a lot of control over, or at least we think that we don’t. And so, uh, that’s why I have Marco here. Uh, Marco is amazing. Marco a Hernandez is, he’s the creator of Hoopla. New Pharmaceutical Grade CBD brand focuses on helping people achieve a better quality of life. Uh, he’s also the founding member of Kaizen social, which is a social media marketing agency for ECOMMERCE. And e-commerce is what we’re going to talk about today. We’re going to talk about how to optimize conversion rates on your online store to make sure that the traffic we’re driving is good because obviously youtube ads drives wonderful traffic. Uh, it’s some of the most qualified traffic you can drive on the Internet.

Marco Hernandez: (03:10)
Um, well first of all, I think when we’re looking at, um, e-commerce, we were looking basically the same type of platforms like will commerce or Shopify. So I’ll take Shopify for the example. Um, the majority of the people just go and create a website. They might take the standard template. Um, usually, uh, Shopify will give you a free template. So people might just put it up there and just upload pictures on it. And it might be a very simple site. The problem is that all these generic templates, they, they’re not designed for the best creativity. What does that mean? Um, I put a lot of focus and emphasis on, on fonting. So fonts are for me, one of the most beautiful aspects of, of website deployment. So if you don’t have an effective font, it’s going to be very hard for you to read through text.

Marco Hernandez: (04:04)
And as silly as it might sound, uh, big brands like apple make a lot of emphasis. Google owes, who does make a lot of emphasis on the quality of the, of the letters. Uh, if you compare for example, and now Microsoft has moved towards that direction, but if you compare Microsoft word five years ago or three years ago versus the Google sheets or Google documents, the quality of the impression on the, on the letters is very different. So why is this important? Well, we’re spending most of our time on, on our cell phones and users are scrolling. So you make very hard to read the text and you might say, well, we’re using standard fonts wise there aren’t fonts in, there are beautiful fonts. That’s the way I see it. And there are fonts that are really attractive and very appealing to the item make you just keep reading and reading very easily.

Marco Hernandez: (04:55)
That’s one of the things that I would say a number two is a consistent branding across the website and not only a branding that aligns in, in terms of a symmetry and colors and contrast and correct combination, but also something that doesn’t affect the conversion. So we have brands that, uh, might use a lot of the orange because that’s part of your personality, but we know that orange tends not to be a so good color because there’s psychology behind it. There’s psychology in which colors people tend to click for a, whether your audience is a female or a male audience or younger or older generations. So there are colors that are more predominant for, to make people click through. Does that make sense?

Matt Johnston: (05:39)
It does. Um, do you want to spill those colors?

Marco Hernandez: (05:47)
Well, um, you can break it down a lot in, in different verticals depending on which industry you’re working on. Certain colors work better than others. Uh, so for example, if you’re in the medical field or in the health and wellness, anything in the blue in the, in the green tends to be better if you’re focusing on financial services. And the green is definitely a excellent color. Um, however you, you in this same thing that we always tell our clients, we can assume things and we can design anything that we envision as the most beautiful, the most perfect. But it’s until you put it to the test that you really are gonna get that result. Uh, for us in marketing, uh, and especially me as a marketer, I try to stay neutral to any position on what’s best or what’s not best. I tend to leave it to the market.

Marco Hernandez: (06:40)
What does that mean? I cannot make a decision based on gut feeling. I think this is going to be the best performing, the best performing site, the best performing creative. But really you just have to sit in the middle and say, okay, let’s put it to the test. I think this one will be that. Let’s corroborate it. So it’s always in a very scientific approach because at the end it’s the data that’s gonna back up everything that you’re saying. So in a nutshell, if you want to get good, good conversions generally go towards the, the green to blues. A red is also very interesting, but it’s a controversial color. It calls for strict call to action, but it tends to be a little bit of aggressive on some certain brands and some of them don’t, don’t like it. We see sites that use colors like black very intensely, but black has it normally a very negative connotation. So there are brands that like it and work for them. Others that don’t, but it’s always subject to the test.

Matt Johnston: (07:33)
That’s really interesting I guess. Um, not that I’ve researched as extensively as probably I should have, but I’ve certainly heard in the past that, um, like the, I the, the sort of general rule would be to not put buttons in your brand colors because you want them to stick out. But then, you know, I feel like for example, you were saying that like the color blue works very well for health organizations. So I, I’m going to go ahead and guess because blue often is psychologically linked with, you know, trust. Right. Um, what, I mean, what do you do? I mean, you know, I mean, do you want to just stick out? I mean, does that blue button going to blend in too much too to their brand? Uh, or, or is that advice that I’ve heard wherever the heck I heard it. Who knows? Mostly not good advice.

Marco Hernandez: (08:25)
Well, here’s, here’s my approach to things. Um, a call to action button, like a book, a call or out to cart. You normally want it to stand out and not be part of your brand. From my perspective, the reason you don’t want to have that button just blend into the background. You want to really stick out and have them clarity on where to click. And majority of the sales and e-commerce that we’ve seen drop, because people don’t know what’s the next step. Like there’s some uncertainty in the sales funnel. They’re like, oh, okay. Nella do, where do I go? Remember the majority of the people are not super savvy technologically speaking. They, they’re on phone, they’re on the go. They might be distracted and they just want a quick path to it. So if you don’t have clarity on your website, either with colors or intentional messages, call to actions like very explicit ones, they’re going to have a hard time.

Matt Johnston: (09:20)
Yeah. Um, right. Yeah, I, yeah, I mean I think it’s always, I mean it’s always something that you come, I mean, and this is just, just generally speaks to like a greater tension with, uh, between brands and their need to market themselves is how do you balance brand and conversion? Um, you know, I mean if you’re saying we want red buttons or yellow buttons on a brand that’s typically usually blue. How does that, how does that usually flow with your clients about how you do that balancing act between, uh, cro needs? Uh, and you know, which is conversion rate optimization by the way, conversion rate optimization needs versus actually being on brand.

Marco Hernandez: (10:03)
Right. So that’s an excellent question. I had a client and we were working on maybe about three to four months ago and they approached us because they, they had a lot of issues with add to carts, right? They, they spent thousands of dollars creating a very nice non-conventional website, if you want to call it. Like this is the way the information was displayed was not very standard to what normally a website looks like. So they try to be a little bit too different. A, the copy was very complicated and even in this case, I think they’re add to cart buttons was, were black. What happened is the, the overall website had a feeling were you couldn’t find information really easy, eh, but that’s how they had built the brand. And funny thing is we, we had a controversial discussion because what we did is we implemented our zero service.

Marco Hernandez: (10:03)
Right. So that’s an excellent question. I had a client and we were working on maybe about three to four months ago and they approached us because they, they had a lot of issues with add to carts, right? They, they spent thousands of dollars creating a very nice non-conventional website, if you want to call it. Like this is the way the information was displayed was not very standard to what normally a website looks like. So they try to be a little bit too different. A, the copy was very complicated and even in this case, I think they’re add to cart buttons was, were black. What happened is the, the overall website had a feeling were you couldn’t find information really easy, eh, but that’s how they had built the brand. And funny thing is we, we had a controversial discussion because what we did is we implemented our zero service.

Marco Hernandez: (11:05)
So what that does is we create multiple split tests, parallel split tests on the pages. And that parallel testing allows you to just validate your hypothesis is so you’re saying, hey look, I think your, I love that you wrote 10 paragraphs about your product. But when I went in and I tried to read it, I couldn’t understand anything you were talking about, about your problem. It was too complicated, too convoluted. Right? But that was the banality of the brand. And they want you to sound sophisticated and exquisitely, and um, so was this was a sports performance brand. So what I did is I approached the experts in that would buy those types of products and say, Hey, what do you normally search in a person? Well, I want x, y, z features. I want to read that they comply with x, y, z. So when I validated with what the ideal client would look for and look into the, and we actually actually share that with them.

Marco Hernandez: (12:08)
Um, they were shocked. They were like, well, this is fluff. Like this tells me nothing. So the problem is you have a conflict in, in client’s website because the owners of the brands, they’re in love with our products. Of course, it’s your baby who wouldn’t believe that. The reality is that you have to kind of take a, an objective position and say, well, this is my baby, but am I seeing it as a parent or am I seeing it as a businessman? And that’s where the, the biggest line divisionary line has to be drawn. We have to take into consideration factors that are objective and they’re always backed by evidence, not by feeling. We might say, I think my brand should have this combination of colors. And when you test it, it’s very negative where it has a negative repercussion on sales. Well why would you want to keep that? Well, cause that’s the color of brand that I want. It’s like, okay, we understand that, but the numbers are telling you it’s affecting you. So in business, anybody that invites you wouldn’t go and put your money where you have the hunt where the statistics are telling you, hey, your peer, you’re going to make money. That’s where you go and invest. So the same thing you got to treat, you gotta separate the, the emotional aspect of your brand versus what’s really driving you the revenue.

Matt Johnston: (13:29)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, so, so, so let’s take a step back for a minute because a lot of people don’t even think about this stuff. I mean, they do often go by the templates, especially because these sites all have templates. Um, and some of them are better than others. And then of course there’s add ons that you can get and then they have more templates. But at the basic building block on an ecommerce product page, what are the, like, what’s the, what are the essential conversion pieces that need to be in place and not suck basically?

Marco Hernandez: (14:03)
Okay. Um, I think the first would say, uh, correct photography and correct photography doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean that you have to go and spend thousands of dollars on a photographer. Um, now you can get amazing photographs with your iPhone 10, a super high quality. You just need to have the right lighting and in the right setup so that the photographs are there. I personally choose in like, uh, product photographs that are actually on white backgrounds. I have a preference based on what I’ve seen in the cleanliness of high-converting sites that white backgrounds tend to be the best. So if you play with, with space, it gives breathing room for, for a website. So always look for a template that has, in my case, that’s what I always tell them. Look for a template that has a lot of white background space. It just gives cleanliness and professionalism to a site, whether it’s instead of being just crammed with colors.

Marco Hernandez: (14:58)
So photography is important. Now, photography doesn’t have to be photography. I’ve seen a lot of sites that are using 3d renders now. So it gives you a cheaper possibility to start using three d models. And then if you need to swap products or recreate different things, it’s an option, um, to you just have a designer simulate your products and it’s becoming more popular because then you can do a lot of changes faster than just hiring a photographer back and forward and then agreeing on the foot rough to use. Um, keep it to one or two product. Uh, photographs. I wouldn’t say use more. It’s not really necessary and just keep those photographs consistent. Um, depending on the type of product you will sometimes want to see as a consumer. Let’s say you’re, you’re selling handbags, you see the photograph of the bag, high definition photo, you love it.

Marco Hernandez: (15:51)
But then one of the biggest conflicts that women have is, okay, what’s the size of this bag? You said like, uh, I can hold it in my hand. This said a large purse. So you always have to have contextual type of photographs to see how it’s working or how it would really look live. Um, that’s number one. Number two is, um, I like to use descriptive, uh, short descriptive copy. Um, not an extensive description of the product for that. You actually break the content and you split it into just the, the initial paragraph and then you’d have tabs below were if they’re interested, they’re going to click through and read about it. Of course, if you have the budget add videos to it, people like to watch videos. So we’ve seen that with a cabbages. We have to be aware that if you start adding a lot of elements to the website, well below times are gonna start going up.

Marco Hernandez: (16:48)
So video is good. Just make sure that when, when your developer programs that it doesn’t preload the video because that’s a very, very big stake we see with, with people in ecommerce stores, they’re putting a lot of video content up and it’s preloading. So what does pre-loading mean? You request a website and then it goes to youtube and downloads, let’s say five, 10 megs of the video. So that affects a little time on the, on the website. Okay. And um, and I, I like to keep always the, the add to cart above the fold. Sometimes it’s very hard depending on how much description of the product they have or a, but I like to keep it up and, and that’s one of the tests that it’s always good to validate at the current location, depending on the price point of the product. Sometimes you want them to read a little bit about it before showing them the out to cart. Um, and then you play with variables such as do I put the, the price of the add to cart in the, in the button or outside the button. And it said below first. So you’re playing with variables based on price and I’m type of product to see whether you need to connect a little bit with your audience before telling them, hey, it’s 200 to $300.

Matt Johnston: (18:01)
Yeah. I was wondering about how, how these things shift, uh, between, you know, based on the price of your product. I mean, w would you ever advocate for a more landing page style, you know, where there’s more sort of storytelling and such, um, uh, with w with a very pricey product or are we still doing, I mean, and, and is there any psychological tie between having just like the very what you see all the time on ecommerce websites, which is basically image on the left price and add to cart on the right and boom, that’s it. Um, does that vary based on the product?

Marco Hernandez: (18:39)
Yes, absolutely. Um, so I’d say there are two, two ways of, or two approaches. The one that you’re describing, which is a photo on the left description, the right and then little bit more content that’s mainly driven by ecommerce stores such as a Shopify or woocommerce. And the other approach is more like the sales letter style, which is more encouraged by landing pages and builders such as click funnels for example. Um, I’d say it depends on the strategy that you want to follow. I like the sales letter approach when I’m working with products that can bundle up and I can, uh, basically package in threes or sixes and then do a n an upsell straight into the, into the product page and say, hey, keep reading and keep reading. Keep reading. And if you buy now instead of one, why don’t you get six that sell? It works very good. Uh, but it’s very direct and I would have recommended for for products maybe below $50 because w or, or if your store, it’s a large store because then you’re going to spend a lot of time building sales letters that you test each of them and see what works and what doesn’t work. If your stores one time product m c test would works better if they need a longer sales letter or, or just the regular approach on photo and description. That’s it.

Matt Johnston: (20:11)
Yeah. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve wondered about that, about, you know, how much warming up you would actually do because sometimes, and we often worry about this with youtube, we think about this a lot with youtube. Um, people go to youtube because they want to know, want to do, want to buy something, want to learn something. And so often when they’re going to your product page, um, it’s always tough to say what kind of mood they’re in to shop. Um, obviously Youtube ads works very well for e-commerce, but, um, sometimes we will choose to do a, like a lead Gen approach to more higher ticket products, um, where we’re doing some sort of contest or something like that because, you know, is it too aggressive to take somebody right to a product page at the same time? It is a better audience than you you’d see through social media in a way, like a more intent-based audience.

Matt Johnston: (21:05)
And so I feel like with the right messaging on the landing page slash product page, um, you might be able to, to have a really high success rate. So, um, I, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve often wondered, um, you know, and also you get more opportunity to warm people up in a youtube ad than you do with a simple image on Facebook or Instagram, uh, cause you’re actually providing value in the, in the ad. So I wonder with a, I wonder with that, you know, if you’re selling a $400, $500 thousand dollars product, um, is there some version that might work a little bit better to send somebody directly to a product page? And of course at the end of the day you want to split test it, but maybe the sales letter approach would make sense.

Marco Hernandez: (21:57)
Yeah. The, the higher you go up and, and, and price point for a product, the more you need to talk to them about it. Um, it doesn’t have to be like one of those old 15 minutes scroll sales letter. You could actually wrap it up in another video. So they click on, on your youtube video, they go to a landing page where they actually see a more specific video about the technology and maybe a short version of the video. In a transcription below it. And then the offer, um, that, that type of format we worked for, for a hire, I intend to product a, something that we’ve been testing and it’s going to be very, very cool is uh, especially for higher ticket prices is the adoption in the websites of uh, augmented reality technology. Um, I believe I sent you a demo of something of this nature.

Marco Hernandez: (22:55)
And so you basically, basically you have the, the rendering of the product and you’re able to pop the camera straight on the landing page. You pop the camera of your cell phone and it brings that object into your camera stream if you want. I don’t know if it’s right, the camera feed. So then you can see live how the product would look like. So if it’s a, let’s say a three foot by five foot product or um, a couple of inches tall, you can actually position it in your live, on your, on, on your desk or in your garden, wherever the product fits. So I think those types of pools, uh, eventually will start coming up more in, into pages to make the user more familiar with it and see how it really looks alive. So the more information you give to them, I think it’s, as long as it’s well-pleased and it’s not overloading the user with unnecessary information, I think it’s always beneficial.

Matt Johnston: (23:55) That’s amazing. Yeah. I mean we are not too far from the days where we’re going to be able to leverage that inside of Youtube ads somehow, whether it’s some sort of virtual reality device that we all have on us at all times and we know that we have it. Um, or pretend well, I, cause I was just thinking mope computer, but I suppose on mobile, um, we’re probably not too far away from us being able to show augmented reality pieces in our ads. I would not be surprised at all or three 60 video, um, easily inside of our ads. Uh, and then you can really get p because that’s generally, especially as you go up up the price ladder, uh, people want a picture of themselves with it.

Matt Johnston: (24:40)
They, and they want to know what it’s like, what it feels in their hands. Um, and that, that, that’s always been the biggest detriment. Does online shopping. We all do it. We love it. We’re never going to go brick and mortar again consistently. However, at the end of the day we would like to see something before like gun to our head, right? Like we would like to see something before we buy it. It would be nice. It’s never possible anymore. Rarely possible, but it will be great. Instead we would go on like sort of money back guarantees and things like that. Uh, but this, this may actually replace that experience for us and we may be able to do that on the ad buying side and the, um, and the, and the Cro side for sure. I have you, uh, have you, um, tested any of that yet?

Marco Hernandez: (25:26)
So we’re in the process of deploying a couple of shops that will have that capability. Um, so for instance, we’re, we’re having conversations with this, uh, company in Australia that does greenhouses. So imagine just being capable of saying, okay, how is this green is going to look in my backyard? Can it fit? How would it like just having that visual aspect on it and it makes it like a little bit of like a showroom where you’re able to say, you know what they have, I like this one, this model will look great or this one doesn’t fit even though I like it. Um, so you don’t have to actually go there to the back of earth and measure it. You can just put it there. So as a consumer, as a shopper, well that’s, that’s cool. Things that you want to start seeing on, on ecommerce stores. It’s not technically something that you can benchmark, but it’s definitely gonna be something that you can, um, allow users to have a better experience and better experience always translate and happy clients. Right.

Matt Johnston: (26:27)
I actually think that it’s, so, it’s such a big feature that when it’s cracked in a way that is accessible to everyone and easy to execute, whoever’s first to crushing that is gonna win. I mean, because I do think it’s that important. I mean for, for even $50 products, people are doing extensive research on them to see if they should make even a $50 investment.

Marco Hernandez: (26:49)
There are, especially in the clothing industry, these types of technology school will skyrocket their sales. Um, the biggest hold back I have buying online are for sunglasses. That’s my, like I always have to go to the store. Even though I buy it online, I have to go to the store to try it out because it doesn’t, I don’t, I can’t see from a photograph whether that fits my face, that and shoes. Right. And just taking the example of a company like Sapos were they built an online empire on shoes by changing the model where, hey, try it. If it doesn’t fit, send it back and send it back as many times you want until it fits. If they can create in an experience on their online store where a, maybe the, the, the AI or the augmented reality is able to actually measure the size of your foot because now there’s technologies that allow you to do that with what suits you. Upload your photo and tell you how much your dimensions, so the same thing can be applied to for your feet. You can measure and say, hey, this is the right size for you. And then you see it in augmented reality on your feet. Yup. I like these boom purchase. So it’s going to evolve. And those who adopt these type of technologies will definitely have a competitive advantage over the rest.

Matt Johnston: (28:13)
Yeah, that’s amazing. One more brief aside and then we can leave that and go to a slight, a few, a few more basic things. But a, I bought a, a, I bought a car the first time. I bought a car in a while. It used car a year ago and I bought it from Carvana. I bought this car online and uh, you know, Caravan van is the company that has these, um, car vending machines in a couple of areas in the country, you know. Um, but I, I bought the car online and they’re augmented reality. Well, I, you know, I wouldn’t call it augmented reality, but like, whatever it is you would call, it was amazing. I felt fine purchasing the car based on it. And basically what it allowed me to do was not just get a three 60 view of the actual car that I was going to buy, but I could go inside of it, look all around, I could look, I could find blemishes, I could see the back seat, the front seat, the trunk, whatever I wanted.

Matt Johnston: (29:10)
Like I’m, there’s not much more that I could see in person except for actually test driving. And I’m not a car guy. I don’t really care. I mean, like they all, they all drive the same to me. So, you know, I, I, it was an easy purchase for me, but you know, if it hadn’t had that, um, that feature on the site, I wouldn’t have bought it. Now, of course, with something like Carvana with their model of like selling these cars online and that’s their thing. I mean, they kind of had to crack that very early because how else are you going to get someone to make that purchase? But, um, uh, I, I just thought that that was very cool and we’re not very far. I don’t think at all from any brand being able to do this. I think that it’s just, you have to think outside the box.

Matt Johnston: (29:52)
Any brand could do it right now if they wanted. It sounds like to me. So, um, it was just sort of a missed opportunity. So going back to the basics, so we talked about, we talked a little bit about, um, what about headlines and copy. Um, you, you mentioned a little bit about having short and to the point copy, etc. But how much selling are we doing there? I mean, I feel like a lot of, a lot of product pages I see are just largely typical, right? It’s sort of like, this is the product. It does this like basically like Amazon. Like a lot of the, a lot of e-commerce PR, uh, uh, stores are sort of basically copying Amazon. They’re just kinda like, and they’re going off the theme. Like these are like three benefits. This is what it is. These are the colors available.

Matt Johnston: (30:43)
What’s your quantity and add to cart. Uh, but at the same time, you don’t want to make it too much. You don’t want to overthink it. So what’s the sort of, um, I dunno, what do you think, what’s the, what’s the recommended headline and copy stuff there? And do you use a headline that’s not just the products that you just say, you know, like, you know, like revolution, like, like, like a, I dunno, whatever eye cream or do you actually add a headline? Like this eye cream will transform your mornings? I mean, how, like what do you think?

Marco Hernandez: (31:16)
Right. Well I think it goes back to whether you’re working on type of sales letter approach or just a standard shopping. Um, keep in mind [inaudible] a lot of the, the sales letter go from driven traffic. So if you’re taking that approach and you’re driving traffic to that, usually that is gonna work better than just the, the product title. Now it’s very rare that you find an online store that has the type of naming convention because they, they, even though we know that that would probably work better, they want to have a standardized product naming convention. So they’re not going to say, I’m amazing. I renewal cream. They’re going to say just renewal cream cause that’s the name of the product. So a lot of companies tend to keep that conventional approach. Um, but if you’re going towards the more sales letter approach, I would definitely encourage you to take the other um, approach.

Marco Hernandez: (32:14)
Now from a description standpoint, I think it’s always going to be benefit oriented and not feature oriented. People don’t buy because the, what they’re reading makes sense, but they, they buy because they’re connecting with the product. Um, they, you must always address who is this ideal for? What am I gonna feel, see taste when I try your product and what benefits am I going to get from it? If you write the copy around those aspects, it’s going to be more engaging with your audience. That just saying, oh, this measures two inches by five by 10 it wastes this much. We don’t care about those things we care about. Is it going to solve my problem or not? So a lot of the times we forget about addressing the problems. So why would I buy, um, your cell phone? Well, this is the newest technology that, uh, has the, the latest cameras that you can take the best photographs with your kids.

Marco Hernandez: (33:10)
So that type of copy would definitely engage with somebody that has parents, right? So you have know your audience and how you write your copy. Um, be concise about it. Don’t be fluffy. Fluff makes you [inaudible] distract and I’ll take action. So you have to be very direct on the benefits. Who is it for and, and how you should attack it. Now, copy needs to be written different modalities. I mean, if you want to really deep dive into understanding products you have to product sales, you have to understand, well, how do people engage with you while they engage on the visual aspects on it? Auditory, um, in a, in a kinesthetic way. Those are nearing the mystic programming. Banalities so your copy always needs to refer to them. I don’t know if Matt is a more auditory person or visual. So you have to be able to describe your product in multiple angles where when you sit here, you’re going to feel this, but it’s going to look amazing in your living room and when like the sofa is going to be the center of your party. So you’re, you’re creating multiple elements there so that they can visualize it in multiple sensorial aspects. Does that make sense?

Matt Johnston: (34:26)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does. It does make a lot of sense. Um, I, you know, I just think it’s always, it’s always you just never know what to write in, how much to write. I mean, you always just want to focus on the, the, the pluses and minuses, the costs and the benefits. Um, but at the end of the day, like you’re like, ah, I don’t know, maybe I gotta warm up a little more. Maybe I got to push on some pain points. And at the end of the day it’s specific to the product, specifically the audience. So that makes a whole lot of sense.

Marco Hernandez: (34:57)
And I think it’s, just to touch on what I think, because we, we, we always have frustrated clients that say, well, we’re always testing what’s up with that? Well, because you’re always testing, your company’s always going to be testing things. That’s a whole attention. You never have a silver bullet. And sales are seasonal. Your audiences change your product, the walls. So you’re always in this consistent testing. So whether there’s not going to be an ideal copy, it might work for six months and then it doesn’t work. But the thing is you got to always test what, how can I improve it? And you’re gonna end up in have or take two steps forward and then you might take one step back, like to tip forward one step back, et Cetera, et cetera. So it’s always that process of seeing if I can make it better or is it going to worse.

Matt Johnston: (35:47)
Cool. All right, so, so, so let’s recap here and make sure just before we wrap up to make sure we have, we give people like really actionable stuff to take a look at for all their ecommerce product pages. They’re taking a look at. So one, we want to make sure the photography is on point basically, right? Um, meaning that it isn’t distracting. Um, it looks elegant but you don’t need to overproduce it to make sure the button really stands out. But, um, you want to look at different colors for different sectors, um, and uh, try to balance those things. But at the end of the day it needs to stick out like a sore thumb, right? Um, and the copy should be shortened to the point direct and not get too flowery. It should mostly speaks to pluses and minuses and direct benefits and problems that it’s solving. And uh, basically the more expensive the product, the longer your product page is likely going to be because you might have multiple videos, a little bit more copy, et Cetera. Um, but I think you would, but I think you would say that you still on an ecommerce product base for a more expensive product, you want to really focus in on, on like very a very direct conversation of the problems it’s solving and the benefits. Right?

Marco Hernandez: (37:08)
Except if you’re Ferrari, then you say, buy now you don’t need to,

Matt Johnston: (37:14)
you know us, stop reading. Right, right.

Marco Hernandez: (37:17)
Just click buy.

Matt Johnston: (37:20)
Yeah. That’s great. Marco. I think that there’s a lot that people can take, can take away this. I know, I know that I’m going to be revisiting a lot of, I’m actually, I’m trying to, I’m like thinking right now, I need to go over to my client’s product pages right now and just see if I can just get my hands in there and fix this stuff. But I also think that one of the big, uh, the big takeaways here is like to test everything and it’s not hard to do that and it’s worth it. Um, it’s easier than ever to set up Ab tests, uh, through all of these platforms. So test stuff, you know, test stuff as, as much as possible. Um, uh, so yeah, I thank you so much. This was, this was great. This was great. I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, this is what matters are conversions, right? You’re not just traffic. We’re not just driving traffic. It’s traffic. Doesn’t matter. I can get anyone to click on stuff. It’s not about that. It’s more about, you know, who, who are you driving and are they going to convert once they get there? And I think you’ve really given us a good, a good tool box. Thanks Marco.

Marco Hernandez: (38:29)
Yeah, absolutely. If I want to leave you one last, know your numbers correctly. Um, a lot of the reporting tools actually give you total traffic. Um, what I consider in mind metrics is, um, page visits. What happens is if, especially if you’re a large brand that you have a lot of organic traffic, um, you’re gonna get visitors all the time and you’re going to be able to, I personally believe that we’re going to, traffic shouldn’t convert the same rate than paid traffic. One is on the other is more curious. So one of your driving traffic straight to the product page. So always make sure that when you’re benchmarking and seeing your conversion rate for your page, if it’s 3%, and it’s actually a page views or product page views versus a, um, instead of just website total website views, because that’s going to make a big difference on comments. People are what seeing a specific product and clicking through that product because not all products convert at the same rate at year.

Matt Johnston: (39:32)
Yeah. That’s very interesting. That’s very interesting. Yeah, for sure. All right, everybody will, thanks so much for, uh, for joining me for this, uh, Cro sesh. Marco, appreciate you being here. Uh, we’ll be here again next week, every Friday. Like always. That’s what we do now. Thanks again for being here and, uh, have an amazing rest of your day where and whenever you are

Marco Hernandez: (40:05)
[inaudible].

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